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  #11  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 06:00 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by nanacat View Post
I heard today that there are plans for 8600 armed police officers to be out on the streets tonight. Talk about overkill....
Why is it 'overkill'?

Here in Moscow usually a couple thousand security forces members, armed to the teeth, assemble around Luzhniki stadium for every major football game, and hundreds more in plainclothes infiltrate the crowds. And most of us grateful for that: that's how you prevent a riot.

The cause, I can tell you: the culture of entitlemen among modern youth. I know, because here in Moscow we have that too. Not in the villages, it is different there, young people raised the traditional way. But here, it is like in the West. They grow up felling that everyone owes them everything and they do not owe anyone anything.
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  #12  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by Zarquon View Post
The savage austerity measures undertaken by Britain might have something to do with it.
According to what I've read it supposedly does. Public assistance was reduced and have-nots feel entitled to the standard of living formerly provided. Current civil unrest is being compared to austerity measures enacted 25-years ago with the same results, but is that an acceptable excuse for wanton destruction of public and private property?

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As for the rioting itself, the police should've been better equipped and prepared, especially after last year's student protests.
Civilian law enforcement (LE) in most developed countries is staffed and equipped to maintain civil obedience on a defined ratio of X LE per thousand citizens dependent on crime statistics in a given area. To anticipate destructive riots with planning for immediately relocating adequate personnel/equipment is beyond logistical capabilities of most all cities. In the US national guard troops supplement local law enforcement for emergencies, including civil disorder.
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  #13  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Why is it 'overkill'?

Here in Moscow usually a couple thousand security forces members, armed to the teeth, assemble around Luzhniki stadium for every major football game, and hundreds more in plainclothes infiltrate the crowds. And most of us grateful for that: that's how you prevent a riot.

The cause, I can tell you: the culture of entitlemen among modern youth. I know, because here in Moscow we have that too. Not in the villages, it is different there, young people raised the traditional way. But here, it is like in the West. They grow up felling that everyone owes them everything and they do not owe anyone anything.
I agree with your opinion. I can only speak for the US and there is a strong sense of entitlement in many of our youth and young adults. Rather than attempting to do something about their individual circumstances, they seek to lay blame on whatever or whomever is handy. Yet they curse developing country workers who accept lower standards of living and despise anyone unsympathetic to their demands of social equality just because they exist. Sociologists are defining the current crop of young adults as the live at home or parental subsidized generation. That's one reason the US requires immigrant workers for the jobs Americans won't perform.

I have no idea if the UK has a similar circumstance but wouldn't be surprised if it does.
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  #14  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
loose/loose either way. Calling in the military will scar a city for a long time (look at Detroit after the race riots). Not ending the riots will cause untold damage. No good solution or answer.
Many of the affected areas in England bear a similarity to Detroit with vanished industry, workers unwilling to relocate and now multiple generations dependent on public assistance. What's another scar?
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  #15  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Many of the affected areas in England bear a similarity to Detroit with vanished industry, workers unwilling to relocate and now multiple generations dependent on public assistance. What's another scar?
no empathy for the suffering huh?
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  #16  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
I agree with your opinion. I can only speak for the US and there is a strong sense of entitlement in many of our youth and young adults. Rather than attempting to do something about their individual circumstances, they seek to lay blame on whatever or whomever is handy. Yet they curse developing country workers who accept lower standards of living and despise anyone unsympathetic to their demands of social equality just because they exist. Sociologists are defining the current crop of young adults as the live at home or parental subsidized generation. That's one reason the US requires immigrant workers for the jobs Americans won't perform.

I have no idea if the UK has a similar circumstance but wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Everybody has their own sense of entitlement. It's easy to judge somebody else's.
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  #17  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
no empathy for the suffering huh?
No depth of compassion due to complete absence of viable solution.
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  #18  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Everybody has their own sense of entitlement. It's easy to judge somebody else's.
I don't. I earned everything I own.
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  #19  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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I don't. I earned everything I own.
Those rioting in England seem to feel that's not an acceptable method of acquisition. If it isn't given to them at a standard they demand their preference is destroying/taking what others have earned. To some, that seems to be a justifiable rationalization.
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  #20  
Old Aug 9th 2011, 10:38 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Urban Violence in London

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Those rioting in England seem to feel that's not an acceptable method of acquisition. If it isn't given to them at a standard they demand their preference is destroying/taking what others have earned. To some, that seems to be a justifiable rationalization.
Yes. That's football hooligans here too... Ungrateful, selfish morons.
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