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View Poll Results: Should coach be requiredly home grown?
Yes 2 33.33%
No 4 66.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old Feb 9th 2012, 06:10 PM
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NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

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I am aware of that. Good for them. But, imagine, if your native population is not good at a particular sport. Just, not good at it, by nature. So, think this in your mind, this is, shall we say, my perfect vision: if Russia and Brazil could exchange some of their soccer talent for some of our hockey skills, trade our hockey players for their footballers, both our nations would benefit greatly. We'd become powerhouses in both sports
If Russian people would be happy to win a World Cup with a team full of Brazilians, then I'm happy for them - we in the EU are different - no one I know would be happy if their country won the World Cup and it was full of foreign players.

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Do enjoy it, for as long as it lasts. But what I outlined above is the future, I promise you
Yes, I'll enjoy it as long as it lasts - if it ever changes (as you think it will) then I'll take up another hobby.

However, I don't believe it is the future. But if it is, I'll take up some other hobby.

But as you see, it isn't YET - so power to the sport of football for maintaining it that way - I'm very proud of that.
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  #12  
Old Feb 9th 2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
If Russian people would be happy to win a World Cup with a team full of Brazilians, then I'm happy for them - we in the EU are different - no one I know would be happy if their country won the World Cup and it was full of foreign players.



Yes, I'll enjoy it as long as it lasts - if it ever changes (as you think it will) then I'll take up another hobby.

However, I don't believe it is the future. But if it is, I'll take up some other hobby.

But as you see, it isn't YET - so power to the sport of football for maintaining it that way - I'm very proud of that.
What about immigration. It certainly affects sports in those nations who take in many immigrants. Look at Anastasia Rodionova, a Russian who now lives in and plays for Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_Rodionova

Among many others. So, Nick, should immigrants be allowed to compete for their adoptive nation? I ask, because you said

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every single player was born in Spain
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  #13  
Old Feb 9th 2012, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

There is a skier for Colombia... born in US, dad is German, lives in California?
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  #14  
Old Feb 10th 2012, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

MeMyselfandI, I don't think a player necessarily HAS TO be born in a country. I said every player was born in Spain, not because I thought being born there was a ALWAYS a criterion, but because I needed to show you that Spain DID NOT buy their way to victory. Perhaps you should recognise the fact that they did NOT buy their way to victory, and be happy about that, and recognise that INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL is superior to CLUB football in this way.

As for immigrants - some immigrants should be allowed to represent their NEW country, others not.

Should Arshavin, an immigrant to England, be allowed to play for England? No, because he migrated for money.

SHould a refugee be allowed to play for England?
Yes.

But the most important rule, is this - a player can only play for ONE country in his entire life, apart from refugees, like Ferenc Puskas to Spain.
This rule is more important than all others.
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  #15  
Old Feb 10th 2012, 05:52 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
MeMyselfandI, I don't think a player necessarily HAS TO be born in a country. I said every player was born in Spain, not because I thought being born there was a ALWAYS a criterion, but because I needed to show you that Spain DID NOT buy their way to victory. Perhaps you should recognise the fact that they did NOT buy their way to victory, and be happy about that, and recognise that INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL is superior to CLUB football in this way.

As for immigrants - some immigrants should be allowed to represent their NEW country, others not.

Should Arshavin, an immigrant to England, be allowed to play for England? No, because he migrated for money.

SHould a refugee be allowed to play for England?
Yes.

But the most important rule, is this - a player can only play for ONE country in his entire life, apart from refugees, like Ferenc Puskas to Spain.
This rule is more important than all others.
Arshavin is not "immigrant", he just plays club football in Britain, but does not seek citizenship there or anything.

I have a different story for you though, going back to already mentioned Brazilians.

Spartak Moscow's Brazilian forward Welliton

(right) has, with support of his club, applied for Russian citizenship
http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/507471

He says, in a May interview, it would be a "great honor" for him to play for the Russian National Team in Sochi in 2014
http://www.rusfootball.info/pliga/11...aya-chest.html

By the way, as a comment on the second article mentions, American basketball player Jon Robert Holden played for Russia from 2005 to 2007

and it was great. The National Team, already one of the best in the world, improved drastically.

If Welliton can do the same for football, why not? I say give him a passport.
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  #16  
Old Feb 11th 2012, 05:31 AM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

Arshavin is an immigrant. He moved to England, where he could do his job for more money. He pays taxes in England. The fact that he isn't seeking British citizenship doesn't stop him from being an immigrant, unless your definition of immigrant is very unusual indeed.

Spain won the World Cup with only players that were born in Spain.
Germany came 3rd, and had plenty of players who were born outside Germany. But all of Germany's players had lived in Germany since they were children. Therefore, I regard them as totally German. Germany didn't buy them, just because they were good at football.

So Germany and Spain are BOTH proof of how internationl teams don't BUY success, they earn them with their own people.

Club football is the place where you buy success, not international football.
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  #17  
Old Feb 11th 2012, 07:53 AM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

1. Arshavin is not a immigrant. Immigrant is somebody who leaves their birth country, permanently, settles in another country, with a clear intent to become a part of that country, most obvious proof of that intent being the seeking of that country's citizenship. Arshavin may be plays football in Britain, but he is not a British, nor does he want to become that. He is Russian, Russian citizen, plays for the national team. At most you could call him a 'expatriate'. Maybe.

2. Not all nations can 'grow' talent. Poor Southern countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America cannot grow own hockey talent, so it has become a game for the wealthier Northern nations only, a game for white people. I think this is completely disgraceful and unfair.

Then, you have, for example, us Russians who love to watch footbal but, with Pavlyuchenko, Arshavin, and Bilyaletdinov being rare exceptions, are just naturally bad at playing it. Everyone deserves a chance. Maybe with Welliton Russia's footballers will win a world championship. I doubt it, he is just a Brazilian forward, he is not God lol We hope nonetheless...
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  #18  
Old Feb 11th 2012, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
1. Arshavin is not a immigrant. Immigrant is somebody who leaves their birth country, permanently, settles in another country, with a clear intent to become a part of that country, most obvious proof of that intent being the seeking of that country's citizenship. Arshavin may be plays football in Britain, but he is not a British, nor does he want to become that. He is Russian, Russian citizen, plays for the national team. At most you could call him a 'expatriate'. Maybe.

2. Not all nations can 'grow' talent. Poor Southern countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America cannot grow own hockey talent, so it has become a game for the wealthier Northern nations only, a game for white people. I think this is completely disgraceful and unfair.

Then, you have, for example, us Russians who love to watch footbal but, with Pavlyuchenko, Arshavin, and Bilyaletdinov being rare exceptions, are just naturally bad at playing it. Everyone deserves a chance. Maybe with Welliton Russia's footballers will win a world championship. I doubt it, he is just a Brazilian forward, he is not God lol We hope nonetheless...
The hot southern climates favor the footballers (since children can play the game all year round and it is very cheap) just the same way that colder northern climates favor the hockey players since ice is so readily available to practice on.
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  #19  
Old Feb 11th 2012, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
1. Arshavin is not a immigrant. Immigrant is somebody who leaves their birth country, permanently, settles in another country, with a clear intent to become a part of that country, most obvious proof of that intent being the seeking of that country's citizenship. Arshavin may be plays football in Britain, but he is not a British, nor does he want to become that. He is Russian, Russian citizen, plays for the national team. At most you could call him a 'expatriate'. Maybe.

2. Not all nations can 'grow' talent. Poor Southern countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America cannot grow own hockey talent, so it has become a game for the wealthier Northern nations only, a game for white people. I think this is completely disgraceful and unfair.

Then, you have, for example, us Russians who love to watch footbal but, with Pavlyuchenko, Arshavin, and Bilyaletdinov being rare exceptions, are just naturally bad at playing it. Everyone deserves a chance. Maybe with Welliton Russia's footballers will win a world championship. I doubt it, he is just a Brazilian forward, he is not God lol We hope nonetheless...
Poor countries like Ghana and Paraguay do well in the World CUp BECAUSE rich countries CANNOT buy their players. What you are suggesting would destroy their chances of getting to the World Cup quarter-finals.

African people are NOT interested in ice hockey, believe it or not.

Countries tend to be interested in sports that they become good at.

Still, you can carry on hoping that in the future, England, Russia, Qatar, USA, Germany, and other rich countries will be able to buy all the best players from poor countries.

When the same RICH countries are ALWAYS winning all sports competitions, then you will have got your way.

Sport is supposed to be fun, and I'll never forget seeing the DELIGHTED Africans when Senegal beat France in 2002, or when Cameroon beat Argentina in 1990, or when Morocco beat Portugal in 1986.

And you want to take that away.

Well, I hope you and your ilk don't manage.

And if Russians are SO different from us Europeans that they would be happy to win the World CUp with 11 players that were just given Russian passports, then all I can say is, thank God I don't live in Russia - what a primitive mindset.
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  #20  
Old Feb 11th 2012, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Home-grown national coaches

PS: In English (the British variety) an immigrant is any foreign person who lives in the country, and is not a student. Arshavin is a migrant worker, so an immigrant.
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