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Old Nov 14th 2016, 08:31 PM
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Default The Trump Regime

Time for a new thread I'd say and what else could I call it?

Something's bugging me. I heard that Trump will put pretty much his whole family in the cabinet and I wondered whether the US doesn't have laws against nepotism. Turns out it does:

Quote:
5 U.S. Code § 3110 - Employment of relatives; restrictions

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

(a) For the purpose of this section—

(1) “agency” means—

(A) an Executive agency;
(B) an office, agency, or other establishment in the legislative branch;
(C) an office, agency, or other establishment in the judicial branch; and
(D) the government of the District of Columbia;

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

(c) An individual appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in violation of this section is not entitled to pay, and money may not be paid from the Treasury as pay to an individual so appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced.

(d) The Office of Personnel Management may prescribe regulations authorizing the temporary employment, in the event of emergencies resulting from natural disasters or similar unforeseen events or circumstances, of individuals whose employment would otherwise be prohibited by this section.

(e) This section shall not be construed to prohibit the appointment of an individual who is a preference eligible in any case in which the passing over of that individual on a certificate of eligibles furnished under section 3317(a) of this title will result in the selection for appointment of an individual who is not a preference eligible.
So, how can he accommodate his litter like he intends to do? Does this law not 'count' for the president?
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Old Nov 14th 2016, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Time for a new thread I'd say and what else could I call it?

Something's bugging me. I heard that Trump will put pretty much his whole family in the cabinet and I wondered whether the US doesn't have laws against nepotism. Turns out it does:



So, how can he accommodate his litter like he intends to do? Does this law not 'count' for the president?
In short, yes. You may remember that John F. Kennedy's Attorney General was his brother Robert Kennedy.

Frankly I take very minor comfort in the idea of Ivanka Trump being in the close circle, for a variety of reasons.

There are other MAJOR conflicts of interest for Trump that are, as far as I can tell, unprecedented in the modern era. He simply cannot be President. But he's going to be, because our democracy has become a fart in the wind.
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Old Nov 14th 2016, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Though now the word is that his kiddos will be "unpaid advisers" with top security clearance.

Oh, while they run his companies in a "blind trust."

Honestly, my fondest hope is that Trump's priority is personal and familial enrichment. Shit, I'll write a personal check if he just leaves me and mine the fuck alone.
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Hillary was also in charge (first health care packaged? Failed?) when Clinton was president.

How do the Americans in general feel about that, do you know?

Don't they see the conflict?
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

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Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
Hillary was also in charge (first health care packaged? Failed?) when Clinton was president.

How do the Americans in general feel about that, do you know?

Don't they see the conflict?
Could you elaborate a little bit more? How do we feel about Clinton? Health care? What's the conflict?
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
Hillary was also in charge (first health care packaged? Failed?) when Clinton was president.

How do the Americans in general feel about that, do you know?

Don't they see the conflict?
I think a large majority of the electorate is in nihilistic fuck it mode.
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

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Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
In short, yes. You may remember that John F. Kennedy's Attorney General was his brother Robert Kennedy.
Yes, there are precedents but the question remains why it's allowed.
I found this (bit lengthy):

http://www.stetson.edu/law/lawreview...point-24-3.pdf

In a nutshell the Constitution says that the President can pretty much do whatever he likes so an 'ordinary' law such as USC 3110 doesn't trump(*) that since it would be unconstitutional. No court could intervene in presidential nepotism as that would be a breach of the separation of powers between the executive and judiciary branches.

But yet, it's the President's prerogative to appoint Supreme Court Justices. It seems to me that there's a bit of a chicken an egg problem here. Do you really have separation of powers if you constitutionally submit membership of the highest judiciary institution to the 'whim' of the Executive branch? And if you don't have it, how can you use it as an argument?

Then again, I'm not a lawyer of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Frankly I take very minor comfort in the idea of Ivanka Trump being in the close circle, for a variety of reasons.

There are other MAJOR conflicts of interest for Trump that are, as far as I can tell, unprecedented in the modern era. He simply cannot be President. But he's going to be, because our democracy has become a fart in the wind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Though now the word is that his kiddos will be "unpaid advisers" with top security clearance.

Oh, while they run his companies in a "blind trust."

Honestly, my fondest hope is that Trump's priority is personal and familial enrichment. Shit, I'll write a personal check if he just leaves me and mine the fuck alone.
I have little doubt that this will be his main target but that's just strictly his individual ambition. What his government will do hinges on who gets in the cabinet. That IMO is a bigger issue than it being Trump at all.

(*) That verb is now utterly polluted though.
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
Could you elaborate a little bit more? How do we feel about Clinton? Health care? What's the conflict?
Sucre will no doubt correct me if I make a wrong assumption but I think the conflict is the mere appointment of family members into the cabinet whatever their exact title or role. That's a very big no-no in most countries, even in those which are considered corrupt in any case (e.g. Italy). Appointing family members in any capacity is considered corruption ipso facto.
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Old Nov 16th 2016, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
Could you elaborate a little bit more? How do we feel about Clinton? Health care? What's the conflict?
I was not implying there was a conflict. I meant there had been similarities in the past.

Also in France, for example, when Hollande chose his former wife, Ségolène Royal, for the position of Minister of Ecology - they are now separated, but nevertheless -. Some people criticized this decision at the time. She is now making a very good Minster and I don't see any "conflict of interest" just because she has four children with the present President of France.

Nepotism is about favoring your own family for a position regardless of their competances for this position. This is clearly what Trump is doing. Clinton in contrast was competant for the position in her husband's administration.

My question was about Trump. He is so clearly favouring his familly, business interests etc. that it almost looks like a film, not the reality of a western democracy.
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Old Nov 16th 2016, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: The Trump Regime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Sucre will no doubt correct me if I make a wrong assumption but I think the conflict is the mere appointment of family members into the cabinet whatever their exact title or role. That's a very big no-no in most countries, even in those which are considered corrupt in any case (e.g. Italy). Appointing family members in any capacity is considered corruption ipso facto.
LOL, I have now precised what I meant.

I would say it's a no-go for the purists. Therefore tabou. The risk of a conflict of interests is higher but not necessary though ...
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