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Old Oct 19th 2017, 06:56 PM
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Although I still follow US politics as much as I have always done, I just can't bear to post anything or make any comments. What can one say about it?

Observing US politics these days is like watching a slow motion train wreck. You know it is a disaster and people are going to get hurt, but it is just so amazing to watch it happen. The level of petty rivalries, monstrous egos, abject incompetence and outright evil on display is a wonder to behold.

There just isn't anything to discuss. It is just a horror show and a huge embarrassment. Indeed, I'm embarrassed for the United States.

This is very different than the old GW Bush days. Back then, we had lots of petty rivalries, monstrous egos and outright evil, and their competence was definitely questionable, but no where near the utter cluelessness that is on daily display these days. Back in the Bush days, one could actually argue about whether or not invading Iraq was a good idea, or about the merits of a a trillion dollar deficit-financed tax cut. But nowadays, what is there to discuss? I suppose the only issue worthy of comment these days is whether or not Trump is just a fucking ignorant idiot or suffering dementia?
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: US Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Although I still follow US politics as much as I have always done, I just can't bear to post anything or make any comments. What can one say about it?

Observing US politics these days is like watching a slow motion train wreck. You know it is a disaster and people are going to get hurt, but it is just so amazing to watch it happen. The level of petty rivalries, monstrous egos, abject incompetence and outright evil on display is a wonder to behold.

There just isn't anything to discuss. It is just a horror show and a huge embarrassment. Indeed, I'm embarrassed for the United States.

This is very different than the old GW Bush days. Back then, we had lots of petty rivalries, monstrous egos and outright evil, and their competence was definitely questionable, but no where near the utter cluelessness that is on daily display these days. Back in the Bush days, one could actually argue about whether or not invading Iraq was a good idea, or about the merits of a a trillion dollar deficit-financed tax cut. But nowadays, what is there to discuss? I suppose the only issue worthy of comment these days is whether or not Trump is just a fucking ignorant idiot or suffering dementia?
That pretty much sums it up.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 11:11 AM
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The James Clapper who is the in the press right now blasting Trump's rapport with Putin is the same friggin' James Clapper who told a bald-faced lie to the US Senate under oath and suffered no consequences. Top secret documents exposing Clapper were released by Edward Snowden and published by The Guardian in June of 2013.

This from Wikipedia:
Testimony to Congress on NSA surveillance programs, 2013

Excerpt of James Clapper’s testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
On March 12, 2013, during a United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearing, Senator Ron Wyden quoted NSA director Keith B. Alexander’s keynote speech at the 2012 DEF CON. Alexander had stated that “Our job is foreign intelligence” and that “those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false.... From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense.” Wyden then asked Clapper, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” He responded, “No, sir.” Wyden asked “It does not?” and Clapper said, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”[31]
When Edward Snowden was asked during his January 26, 2014, TV interview in Moscow what the decisive moment was or why he blew the whistle, he replied: “Sort of the breaking point was seeing the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress. ... Seeing that really meant for me there was no going back.”[32
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 03:15 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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I should have mentioned that James Clapper was Director of US Intelligence, the head of all the secret police, when he lied under oath to Congress.

Both he and former CIA Director, who are about as deep state as you can get, are now bashing Trump.

Trump had said that he couldn't release the rest of the Kennedy murder documents as required by law because the CIA gave him "no choice." Now he has referred to Clapper and Brennan as "political hacks," which may indicate that he has more guts than brains.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
I should have mentioned that James Clapper was Director of US Intelligence, the head of all the secret police, when he lied under oath to Congress.

Both he and former CIA Director, who are about as deep state as you can get, are now bashing Trump.

Trump had said that he couldn't release the rest of the Kennedy murder documents as required by law because the CIA gave him "no choice." Now he has referred to Clapper and Brennan as "political hacks," which may indicate that he has more guts than brains.
Brennan a hack? I don't disagree, but isn't he Trump's own hack?
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Old Nov 14th 2017, 12:06 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Brennan a hack? I don't disagree, but isn't he Trump's own hack?
I meant John Brennan, but accidentally omitted the name.

As the Wiki article link below states, Brennan was a CIA officer for 25 years, then director of the Terrorist Threat Integration Center under Bush, where he argued for rendering terrorist suspects to other countries for torture, and then Obama appointed him CIA Director in 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O._Brennan
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Old Nov 16th 2017, 12:05 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Why is CNN, the Associated Press, and other mainstream US media still treating James clapper as an expert celebrity witness when Snowden proved that he lied under oath to the US Senate as described in the Wikipedia link above, and we have no reason to believe a single thing that he says?
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...poulos-2017-11
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Last edited by Tom Palven; Nov 16th 2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old Nov 16th 2017, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Why is CNN, the Associated Press, and other mainstream US media still treating James clapper as an expert celebrity witness when Snowden proved that he lied under oath to the US Senate as described in the Wikipedia link above, and we have no reason to believe a single thing that he says?
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...poulos-2017-11
Because those same media organizations take their cues from the US Government that considers Snowden a criminal.

Besides, the US media have an equally long history of propping up blatant liars and charlatans - but only if they serve the interests of US rightwing/warmongers/torture-lovers.

As I've said many times, the mass media serves the interests of the rulers against the interest of the ruled. That's the way it has been for a very long time.
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 08:31 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Because those same media organizations take their cues from the US Government that considers Snowden a criminal.
Agreed, Mr. Canadian, but here are some thoughts for average Amurkins:

Steven Pinker made a great case that there is more peace and freedom in the world today than ever before as evidenced by a myriad of such things as fact that we no longer applaud the drawing and quartering of heretics or burning witches at the stake.

However, the US government doesn't seem to have gotten the memo, continuing to drone emerging politically incorrect leaders in the Mideast and Pakistan, with recent expansion into sub--Saharan Africa.

And along with increased US incursions abroad, there is an apparent increase of political control of US citizens:

The exposure of Operation Mockingbird showed that the CIA had been operating WITHIN THE US to influence media and control free thought for decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

But, despite the old adage that if "it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck" that it might be a duck, the CIA has been omitted from the Wikipedia list of secret police agencies.

It makes one wonder just how much effort the CIA public relations department has made in order to keep the CIA and Mossad off the Wikipedia list which has Bahrain and China on the list; that is, it actually seems more damning that the CIA is not on the list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._organizations

With Operation Mockingbird in mind, can we CONNECT THESE DOTS:

. On March 12, 2013 James Clapper, as head of all 17 secretive policing agencies, testified under oath before Congress that the CIA handmaiden, the NSA, did not collect information on “a single US citizen.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper

. Two months later Edward Snowden released Top Secret documents detailing that the NSA spied on over 120 million US citizens.

. US Senator Lindsey Graham expressed shock that the secret police collected information on him and that he could not obtain the information they had gathered.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...masking-debate

. A federal court ordered that the remaining undisclosed Kennedy murder documents be released on Oct. 26, 2017, 54 years after the event, with only the US President allowed to block the release of any documents. Trump said that he wanted to release the remaining thousands of pages of documents, but that the CIA refused and that he “had no choice” in the matter.

If Snowden hadn’t released the top secret NSA documents, would we be aware of NSA spying on US citizens today? Would we know after 54 years?

Do we really know whether the secret police spy on US citizens now?

Maybe it doesn't really matter, but does the US have the kind of government that Washington, Jefferson, and Madison had in mind?
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Last edited by Tom Palven; Dec 7th 2017 at 08:35 AM.
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Old Dec 10th 2017, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: US Politics

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
If Snowden hadn’t released the top secret NSA documents, would we be aware of NSA spying on US citizens today? Would we know after 54 years?

Do we really know whether the secret police spy on US citizens now?
I think it has been reasonable to conclude that they do. Snowden merely provided the proof that it is so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Maybe it doesn't really matter, but does the US have the kind of government that Washington, Jefferson, and Madison had in mind?
Do you really have to ask?

And not to put too fine a point on it, I don't really like the kind of government that Washington, Jefferson and Madison had in mind. They created a government that institutionalized legal slavery and has lead precisely to the government you have now. I wouldn't blame Trump and the US security state on Washington, Jefferson and Madison, but I don't think those fellows are blameless in a full analysis of the process of how it all came to be.
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