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  #31  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 12:00 PM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Of course. That was established as soon as we set aside "art for art's sake." For most people, most things are means to ends; very few are ends in themselves (i.e. good for their own sake).



Ok. So why isn't art part of nature?
Yet the ethical is exactly an end in and of itself

A man make s a tool that is natural, rooted in our biology, art is an attempt to capture the end in and of itself without the rigours of that calling

Art is less than craft, less than other activities, as has been said above little more than 'masturbation writ large
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  #32  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Yet the ethical is exactly an end in and of itself
I'd dispute that.

Ethics, like morality and everything else that is purely human, is just a means to another end. Ethics are not an end in themselves (though it is the nature of ethics and humans for us to pretend otherwise).
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  #33  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Art is less than craft, less than other activities, as has been said above little more than 'masturbation writ large
I'd say the same of ethics and morality too!
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  #34  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 01:57 PM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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I'd say the same of ethics and morality too!
So then, do I understand you claim to be amoral?
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  #35  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 01:58 PM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Default Re: Nature of art

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I'd dispute that.

Ethics, like morality and everything else that is purely human, is just a means to another end. Ethics are not an end in themselves (though it is the nature of ethics and humans for us to pretend otherwise).
So you claim, I disagree
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  #36  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Yet the ethical is exactly an end in and of itself
Well yes, but that's just a tautology.

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A man make s a tool that is natural, rooted in our biology, art is an attempt to capture the end in and of itself without the rigours of that calling

Art is less than craft, less than other activities, as has been said above little more than 'masturbation writ large
How is making art any less rooted in our biology, any less natural, than making a tool? For that matter, I'm not at all convinced that the subset of artwork and the subset of tools are wholly distinct. I sense that you have a specific and narrow definition of "art" in mind.
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  #37  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

Ethics cannot be an end. Ethis is most definitely a means.
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  #38  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 04:01 AM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Well yes, but that's just a tautology.
No, it is a claim not a tautology; a tautological expression might be something like, Ethics is an end or it is not

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How is making art any less rooted in our biology, any less natural, than making a tool? For that matter, I'm not at all convinced that the subset of artwork and the subset of tools are wholly distinct. I sense that you have a specific and narrow definition of "art" in mind.
Making a tool is part of our form of life, just as certain animals make tools, making something useless like art is a perversion of that ability
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  #39  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 04:02 AM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Ethics cannot be an end. Ethis is most definitely a means.
Then you have misunderstood it
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  #40  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Then you have misunderstood it
Why is ethics the end?

Why isn't, say, grace the end?
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