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  #21  
Old Sep 14th 2015, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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Seems like the State Dept./CIA still can't make up its mind which is worse, ISIS controlling Syria, or a Russia-allied Assad government controlling Syria.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/11/o...ed-to-failure/
Indeed. US policy in Syria seems to involve wishing for a magic pony.
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  #22  
Old Sep 15th 2015, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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Indeed. US policy in Syria seems to involve wishing for a magic pony.
The thing is, in this one specific particular case, it's hard to blame them. The status quo certainly ain't good, but what to do about it and how and per usual, the pivotal question is: what next? Is there something left in Iraq/Syria from which the populations there can built something meaningful for them? I certainly don't see it.
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  #23  
Old Sep 15th 2015, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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Indeed. US policy in Syria seems to involve wishing for a magic pony.
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The thing is, in this one specific particular case, it's hard to blame them. The status quo certainly ain't good, but what to do about it and how and per usual, the pivotal question is: what next? Is there something left in Iraq/Syria from which the populations there can built something meaningful for them? I certainly don't see it.
So are the only choices for [most of] the Middle East (A) brutal dictatorship or (B) extremist Islamic theocracy? Of the two, the first is certainly more in keeping with US and western interests: Assad is better than ISIS. I suspect hope will continue to exist for something better, though. I'm not sure if that's hope "springing eternal" or just paving the road to hell.

I wonder if the refugees are actually the region's best hope in the long run. A sizable population exposed to western politics, protected from the radicalizing influence of the war, supported and funded by connections made here. If even a fraction of them one day decided to return to the "homeland" they might become the missing piece to a free, [semi-]secular state. There's that hope again.
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  #24  
Old Sep 16th 2015, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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So are the only choices for [most of] the Middle East (A) brutal dictatorship or (B) extremist Islamic theocracy?
No one knows the answer to that because US policy has worked very long and hard to make it exactly the way it is. Non-dictatorship/non-theocracies have not been permitted in the Middle East.

Iran is a case in point - it is the most democratic of muslim states in the Middle East - it is US enemy number one. US used to love Iran - but that was when Iran was ruled by a US-sponsored brutal dictatorship. As soon as Iran overthrew the US-sponsored dictator, Iran became an enemy of the USA. Enough said.
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Old Sep 19th 2015, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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So are the only choices for [most of] the Middle East (A) brutal dictatorship or (B) extremist Islamic theocracy? Of the two, the first is certainly more in keeping with US and western interests: Assad is better than ISIS. I suspect hope will continue to exist for something better, though. I'm not sure if that's hope "springing eternal" or just paving the road to hell.
Neither I think. The future for regions with essential resources (oil, coltan, ...) seems to be a state of perpetual anarchy which is convenient for large corporations to extract said resources without any 'noise' such as environmental regulations, workers' organization, democratic financial participation or any of the nuisances which get in the way of proper rational economics. Paying bribes to and providing small arms to various warlords is a lot cheaper than paying taxes or environmental fines.

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I wonder if the refugees are actually the region's best hope in the long run. A sizable population exposed to western politics, protected from the radicalizing influence of the war, supported and funded by connections made here. If even a fraction of them one day decided to return to the "homeland" they might become the missing piece to a free, [semi-]secular state. There's that hope again.
Sorry, but I LOL'ed. The last thing the Syrian refugees in Europe will take with them will be admiration for the way they are being treated here, especially if they enter or pass through Hungary. They are de facto being treated as less than human qua rights and more and more voices want to legalize their dehumanization.
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  #26  
Old Sep 21st 2015, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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Neither I think. The future for regions with essential resources (oil, coltan, ...) seems to be a state of perpetual anarchy which is convenient for large corporations to extract said resources without any 'noise' such as environmental regulations, workers' organization, democratic financial participation or any of the nuisances which get in the way of proper rational economics. Paying bribes to and providing small arms to various warlords is a lot cheaper than paying taxes or environmental fines.
Theocracy and/or dictatorships appear to supply sufficient anarchy for multinational corporations to maximize profits.

Actual anarchy isn't good for multinational corporations. Anarchy tends to raise the cost of business too much and that eats into the profit margin.

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Sorry, but I LOL'ed. The last thing the Syrian refugees in Europe will take with them will be admiration for the way they are being treated here, especially if they enter or pass through Hungary. They are de facto being treated as less than human qua rights and more and more voices want to legalize their dehumanization.
This may be a semantic point, but I believe the actual Syrian refugees are in refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. The ones trying to get into Europe tend to fit the profile of economic immigrants (ie. with enough education and wealth to scream murder via social media about their unfortunate plight).
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  #27  
Old Sep 21st 2015, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

When will the Russkies, the Yankees, the Brits, and the Canucks ever learn?

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/21/s...ssia-involved/

Not in my lifetime, that's for sure. It's just the same old, frigging same old.
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Last edited by Tom Palven; Sep 21st 2015 at 11:43 PM.
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  #28  
Old Sep 21st 2015, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

Or, as they say, SSDD. (Same shit, different day.)
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  #29  
Old Sep 22nd 2015, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

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When will the Russkies, the Yankees, the Brits, and the Canucks ever learn?

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/21/s...ssia-involved/

Not in my lifetime, that's for sure. It's just the same old, frigging same old.
The Russian government, like the American government, fundamentally believes that violence (or war) is a solution. That's why they both have 'warmonger' reputations.

As for Britain and Canada, they both have Conservative party governments right now, which means they both take their marching orders from Washington.
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  #30  
Old Oct 17th 2015, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: The Arab Sring versus the Status Quo

Has the US stalled the Arab Spring movement?

http://original.antiwar.com/Dan_Sanc...e-arab-spring/
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