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  #91  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Who is your avatar?

In the spirit of the discussion happening on the Good Words thread, new avatar is John Calvin.
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  #92  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:29 PM
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In the spirit of the discussion happening on the Good Words thread, new avatar is John Calvin.


Luther is tolerable, but Calvin is one of those hyper-theists that I consider highly toxic to democracy.
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  #93  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:33 PM
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Luther is tolerable, but Calvin is one of those hyper-theists that I consider highly toxic to democracy.
that might be the best quote of the day. You're right! Calvin would not stand for democracy.

Although one could argue his government in Geneva was more democratic then the Catholic systems floating around at the time. He did give the city councils ultimate secular authority as opposed to the bishops or nobility.
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  #94  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:34 PM
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In the spirit of the discussion happening on the Good Words thread, new avatar is John Calvin.
Burn the witch!
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  #95  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:36 PM
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that might be the best quote of the day. You're right! Calvin would not stand for democracy.

Although one could argue his government in Geneva was more democratic then the Catholic systems floating around at the time. He did give the city councils ultimate secular authority as opposed to the bishops or nobility.
Calvin only looks 'friendly' to democracy in terms of 17th century European politics which was anything but democratic and mostly dominated by royal absolutism.
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  #96  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:41 PM
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Calvin only looks 'friendly' to democracy in terms of 17th century European politics which was anything but democratic and mostly dominated by royal absolutism.
true enough, but doesn't he get credit for going against the grain at least?

As I said, he most certainly would not be a whole hearted believer in democracy. Just his system is more democratic that royal absolutism. He could have chosen to structure Geneva as a full blown theocracy, but didn't.
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  #97  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 05:57 PM
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true enough, but doesn't he get credit for going against the grain at least?
I do not subscribe to the view that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Besides, Calvin wasn't exactly going against any grain. Calvin was playing politics for his own direct religious interest.

Fact is, in 17th century Switzerland, Calvin's political (i.e. religious) viewpoint was better served by the secular municipal authorities rather than Calvin's archenemies of the Bishops and nobles.

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As I said, he most certainly would not be a whole hearted believer in democracy. Just his system is more democratic that royal absolutism. He could have chosen to structure Geneva as a full blown theocracy, but didn't.
I think Calvin liked his head being attached. I think that's sufficient reason to explain Calvin not pushing for a full blown theocracy.

Switzerland could not withstand a full declaration of war from all the states of Europe at that time. And that would have been potentially possible if Calvin went too far on the theocracy thing.
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  #98  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 07:39 PM
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I do not subscribe to the view that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Fair enough. I don't read Calvin for his politics. His theology is what I am interested in

Quote:
Besides, Calvin wasn't exactly going against any grain. Calvin was playing politics for his own direct religious interest.

Fact is, in 17th century Switzerland, Calvin's political (i.e. religious) viewpoint was better served by the secular municipal authorities rather than Calvin's archenemies of the Bishops and nobles.


I think Calvin liked his head being attached. I think that's sufficient reason to explain Calvin not pushing for a full blown theocracy.

Switzerland could not withstand a full declaration of war from all the states of Europe at that time. And that would have been potentially possible if Calvin went too far on the theocracy thing.
well he could have chosen not to go back to Geneva and stay in Germany instead.
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  #99  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 07:42 PM
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Burn the witch!
Calvin is most certainly not a saint. In fact, most of the reformers where not saintly individuals. Calvin burned someone at the stake, Luther was an anti-Semite, and Zwingli lead armies in the field and had an affair with a member of his congregation.
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  #100  
Old Apr 4th 2011, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Who is your avatar?

I think he meant more that he personally is going against the grain, in having Calvin as his avatar on this site (which is rather overwhelmingly disproportionately secular/atheist).
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