Discussion World Forum  


Go Back   Discussion World Forum > Discussion Forums > Economics

Economics The economy, taxes, Federal Reserve, Central Banks, inflation, interest rates, unemployment, stock markets, currency, GDP, NAFTA, IMF, WTO, GATT, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old Aug 7th 2009, 09:53 PM
Americano's Avatar
Americano Americano is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,614
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily View Post
Statistics and in the case of the Bush administration and Iraq, outright lies.

Nationalism has been a hallmark of the United States since its inception. We are a young country with a sense of creating something great literally from the ground up. We are a prideful nation, there is no getting around that. We don't have a long history of conquests and victories, of destruction and rebuilding. The reaction of our nation to being violated was this: Let's go kick some ass. That's the mentality, right or wrong. Perhaps it will take an invading army or two, or a national collapse for that to change. Who knows?
By most measures the US is a declining empire. While still able to maintain global respect by military hegemony, the economic numbers haven't been working for quite some time. That leaves collapse, which the government is willing to cushion for as long as our currency allows. As long as the general public continues to believe .02% statistical improvements announced by the government and media will eventually make everything all right, they'll fall in line.

Nationalism supporting faulty government can only be stretched as far as the cushion allows. The US has nothing to fall back on but debt. US debt service is currently the third largest government expense, right behind DoD (with a budget highly distorted by allocating DoD expenses to other budgets) and Social services. All debt at next to nothing interest expense. For a depressing mental exercise, imagine USD losing so much more value the US has to fund its debt at say 8%.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old Aug 8th 2009, 03:40 AM
Lily's Avatar
Lily Lily is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 801
Default Re: The Great Recession

You don't have to convince me America is in decline. I specificallly remember when we turned from a creditor nation to a debtor nation. "Uh oh," I said to myself, "this can't be good." Fareed Zakaria makes a pretty good case in his book, The Post American World. Most Americans truly believe large scale manufacturing is coming back. It isn't. We are beyond that stage in the evolution of our economy. When we're financing our dept at 8%, the USD will no longer be the world currency of trade. These "astro turf" town hall shoutfests will be very real.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old Aug 8th 2009, 11:16 AM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: The Great Recession

Regarding the 'decline' of American power, here's a good article on what might be one of the major reasons (or symptoms).

Small Business Sector Comparison

Here's a couple of examples:

Quote:
The United States has the second lowest share of self-employed workers (7.2 percent) – only Luxembourg has a lower share (6.1 percent).
Quote:
The United States has among the lowest shares of employment in small businesses in manufacturing. Only 11.1 percent of the U.S. manufacturing workforce is in enterprises with fewer than 20 employees.
...
(Raising the cutoff for a small business to fewer than 500 employees does not significantly alter the relative position of the United States.)
Quote:
U.S. small businesses have a much lower share of employment than the comparison economies do in the two high-tech fields for which the OECD publishes data: computer related services and research and development.
There you have it. It has long been a general rule of thumb that small businesses tend to provide the majority of growth in good quality jobs. US has less of those types of businesses than any other western country. That says everything about future US economic development (more McJobs with McMonster Corporations).
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old Aug 8th 2009, 12:29 PM
Americano's Avatar
Americano Americano is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,614
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Regarding the 'decline' of American power, here's a good article on what might be one of the major reasons (or symptoms).

Small Business Sector Comparison

Here's a couple of examples:







There you have it. It has long been a general rule of thumb that small businesses tend to provide the majority of growth in good quality jobs. US has less of those types of businesses than any other western country. That says everything about future US economic development (more McJobs with McMonster Corporations).
That's right, force those remaining small businesses hiring illegal immigrants to pay big penalties and source their products offshore so we can import them with a declining currency. Sometimes it seems we can't get any dumber but we never fail to get even dumber.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old Aug 9th 2009, 10:40 AM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
That's right, force those remaining small businesses hiring illegal immigrants to pay big penalties and source their products offshore so we can import them with a declining currency. Sometimes it seems we can't get any dumber but we never fail to get even dumber.
The irony is that US politicians talk non-stop about how much they support "small business" while they spend all their efforts giving preferential treatment to massive multi-nationals. Typical politicians - say one thing while doing another.

I would say that the US private healthcare system is one of the main reasons for this since small companies can't usually afford this benefit, but without this benefit, they can't attract high-quality employees who all run off to work for the big multinationals to get their health insurance provided.

So long as the US retains the model of 'employer provided healthcare', small business in the USA is going to be the 'runt of the litter'. And that's not good for US economic development since real growth in wealth and prosperity for the greatest many tends to come from the widely diverse small business sector, not the multinationals (which tend to suck up lots of tax breaks and loopholes).

Btw, this data is consistent with the data that shows that the USA is the least egalitarian country in the western world, and has the weakest entrepreneurial culture in the western world.

I really think that "employer-provided-healthcare" model in the USA is to blame for this unintended consequence.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old Aug 9th 2009, 10:53 AM
Americano's Avatar
Americano Americano is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,614
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
The irony is that US politicians talk non-stop about how much they support "small business" while they spend all their efforts giving preferential treatment to massive multi-nationals. Typical politicians - say one thing while doing another.
I've always had a good laugh when politicians create tax breaks for 'small businesses' in the form of accelerated depreciation and other special treatment of fixed assets. As if small businesses are going to go out and acquire new, expensive assets by incurring debt with a negative effect on cash flow. It's always for the big guys.

Quote:
I would say that the US private healthcare system is one of the main reasons for this since small companies can't usually afford this benefit, but without this benefit, they can't attract high-quality employees who all run off to work for the big multinationals to get their health insurance provided.

So long as the US retains the model of 'employer provided healthcare', small business in the USA is going to be the 'runt of the litter'. And that's not good for US economic development since real growth in wealth and prosperity for the greatest many tends to come from the widely diverse small business sector, not the multinationals (which tend to suck up lots of tax breaks and loopholes).

Btw, this data is consistent with the data that shows that the USA is the least egalitarian country in the western world, and has the weakest entrepreneurial culture in the western world.

I really think that "employer-provided-healthcare" model in the USA is to blame for this unintended consequence.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old Aug 9th 2009, 10:15 PM
Greendruid's Avatar
Greendruid Greendruid is offline
Resident Anthropologist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rural Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,628
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
The irony is that US politicians talk non-stop about how much they support "small business" while they spend all their efforts giving preferential treatment to massive multi-nationals. Typical politicians - say one thing while doing another.

I would say that the US private healthcare system is one of the main reasons for this since small companies can't usually afford this benefit, but without this benefit, they can't attract high-quality employees who all run off to work for the big multinationals to get their health insurance provided.

So long as the US retains the model of 'employer provided healthcare', small business in the USA is going to be the 'runt of the litter'. And that's not good for US economic development since real growth in wealth and prosperity for the greatest many tends to come from the widely diverse small business sector, not the multinationals (which tend to suck up lots of tax breaks and loopholes).

Btw, this data is consistent with the data that shows that the USA is the least egalitarian country in the western world, and has the weakest entrepreneurial culture in the western world.

I really think that "employer-provided-healthcare" model in the USA is to blame for this unintended consequence.
You could bolster your argument if you have the figure of small businesses in Canada. Since our business culture is quite similar, surely the difference in health insurance vs. socialised medicine will play out as you say?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old Aug 19th 2009, 08:57 AM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: The Great Recession

A small ray of sunshine this morning...

Quote:
GM bringing back 1,350 workers
Increased demand for fuel efficient cars is leading General Motors to reinstate workers and increase shifts and overtime in order to build 60,000 additional cars.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is upping production and calling 1,350 of its U.S. and Canadian auto workers back to work due to increased demand for its vehicles.

The company said Tuesday it is raising production by about 60,000 vehicles in the third and fourth quarters, in response to the increased sales that accompanied the government's Cash for Clunkers program.

The increased production will come from added shifts and overtime, GM said. In addition, the company will keep select plants open during weeks that they had previously been forecast to be shut down.
Source

Let's hope this uptick is real and not ephemeral.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old Aug 19th 2009, 06:45 PM
wphelan's Avatar
wphelan wphelan is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 422
Default Re: The Great Recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
A small ray of sunshine this morning...



Source

Let's hope this uptick is real and not ephemeral.
I guess we can hope, and there's nothing wrong with that, but nothing I can see has changed that would lead me to believe this is real news. I'm sure there is an up-tick in short-term demand as a result of the CARS program. People that already were already going to buy cars are doing so right now instead of waiting. I'm willing to bet money there will be steep drop in auto sales by the end of the year, however. And, unfortunately for those affected, there will be layoffs that follow.

Actually, if we didn't see this happening now after three billion dollars had just been injected into the auto industry, that would be news.
__________________
"Inflation is the opium of the masses." - Henry Hazlitt

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. - F.A. Hayek
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008 - 2017, DiscussionWorldForum.com