Discussion World Forum  


Go Back   Discussion World Forum > Discussion Forums > Environment

Environment Climate Change, Pollution, Endangered Species, Industrial Agriculture, Degrading Habitats & Renewable Energy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old Oct 25th 2011, 05:02 PM
NickKIELCEPoland's Avatar
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,080
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greendruid View Post
I agree that meat should be considered a luxury item
What if you find a dead rat in the trash?
__________________
Europe
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Oct 25th 2011, 05:13 PM
pramjockey's Avatar
pramjockey pramjockey is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,051
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
What if you find a dead rat in the trash?
I don't mean this as anything personal towards you, so please don't take offense.




Teachers will be nice and say things like "there's no such thing as a stupid question." Well, they lie.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Oct 25th 2011, 05:49 PM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,823
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Don't even get me started on agro-industry subsidies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
New thread? Then you could get started and run with it!
Excellent suggestion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
I don't know much about the topic, but I'm curious about plans that would eliminate agro subsidies without driving up food prices, which strikes me as rather regressive economically (and suicidal politically).
I doubt the effect on US consumers would be that large since the whole principle of US agro-subsidies has nothing to do with subsidizing consumer prices and everything to do with subsidizing large-scale production (for mass export).
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 12:49 AM
Greendruid's Avatar
Greendruid Greendruid is offline
Resident Anthropologist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rural Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,628
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
What if you find a dead rat in the trash?
I think this is actually a salient point because we have some ... interesting rules in our society about such things as non-meat animals and roadkill. To answer the question directly, rats have a lot of diseases that humans have so I would advise that a dead rate in the trash should be cooked thoroughly at 180F for at least 10 minutes to kill off any microorganisms that might be lurking. Don't bother with it in the Four Corners region - hantavirus is just nasty. Roadkill deer, for instance, is often a terrible waste of meat. Most places have laws against going around collecting such things for personal use. We also don't generally consider dogs and cats food in NA but they're fair game in other places. Cows are off the menu for Hindus just as pigs are for Jews and Muslims. Interesting ideas about how food should be categorised. Any meat is still a luxury, even a dead rat if you are resorting to such sources of food - heck, by definition a dead rat in the trash viewed as food must be a luxury.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 12:55 AM
NickKIELCEPoland's Avatar
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,080
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greendruid View Post
I think this is actually a salient point because we have some ... interesting rules in our society about such things as non-meat animals and roadkill. To answer the question directly, rats have a lot of diseases that humans have so I would advise that a dead rate in the trash should be cooked thoroughly at 180F for at least 10 minutes to kill off any microorganisms that might be lurking. Don't bother with it in the Four Corners region - hantavirus is just nasty. Roadkill deer, for instance, is often a terrible waste of meat. Most places have laws against going around collecting such things for personal use. We also don't generally consider dogs and cats food in NA but they're fair game in other places. Cows are off the menu for Hindus just as pigs are for Jews and Muslims. Interesting ideas about how food should be categorised. Any meat is still a luxury, even a dead rat if you are resorting to such sources of food - heck, by definition a dead rat in the trash viewed as food must be a luxury.
I'll remember that - cheers
__________________
Europe
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 09:30 AM
dilettante's Avatar
dilettante dilettante is offline
Moderator
Resident Historian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,082
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I doubt the effect on US consumers would be that large since the whole principle of US agro-subsidies has nothing to do with subsidizing consumer prices and everything to do with subsidizing large-scale production (for mass export).
I have trouble seeing how those two could be separate (i.e. large-scale production generally lowers price-per-unit). But I'll await a thread on the topic to ask further questions.
__________________
kyrie eleison
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 10:45 AM
Donkey's Avatar
Donkey Donkey is offline
Official Forum Mascot
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 7,771
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greendruid View Post
I think this is actually a salient point because we have some ... interesting rules in our society about such things as non-meat animals and roadkill. To answer the question directly, rats have a lot of diseases that humans have so I would advise that a dead rate in the trash should be cooked thoroughly at 180F for at least 10 minutes to kill off any microorganisms that might be lurking. Don't bother with it in the Four Corners region - hantavirus is just nasty. Roadkill deer, for instance, is often a terrible waste of meat. Most places have laws against going around collecting such things for personal use. We also don't generally consider dogs and cats food in NA but they're fair game in other places. Cows are off the menu for Hindus just as pigs are for Jews and Muslims. Interesting ideas about how food should be categorised. Any meat is still a luxury, even a dead rat if you are resorting to such sources of food - heck, by definition a dead rat in the trash viewed as food must be a luxury.
My first question, though, would be how did that rat die? I'd be more comfortable with a rat that I killed when I saw it scrounging around in the garbage than one that I found dead. Just sayin'.

As for road kill, I don't know about the cities, but in the rural counties in Ohio the police have lists of people they will call down when somebody hits a deer, who will come and retrieve the body. I don't know what most of them do with them... the guy who came and got the one that my mom killed was going to feed it to his menagerie (I think HIS biggest critter was a mountain lion/puma/cougar). When my dad hit a deer with his little truck he just stuck it in the bed and drove it down to some amish (I think) to dress it for him.

Venison can be delicious, though usually a less-stress kill goes for better meats.
__________________
"It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize."
Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 05:30 PM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,823
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greendruid View Post
I never said that everyone had to be eating meat either so don't mischaractise my projections about how many people can be fed in this manner.
I wasn't characterizing nor mischaraterizing your projections in any way.

I was making a general comment about the nature of the problem - that even if the whole world switched over to sustainable agriculture (and that's a huge undertaking opposed by massive vested interests) that's only half the battle. To make that work, you'd need a huge switch on the consumer demand side and that's an even larger undertaking opposed by even larger and more powerful vested interests (US culture itself).
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Oct 26th 2011, 08:44 PM
Donkey's Avatar
Donkey Donkey is offline
Official Forum Mascot
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 7,771
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I wasn't characterizing nor mischaraterizing your projections in any way.

I was making a general comment about the nature of the problem - that even if the whole world switched over to sustainable agriculture (and that's a huge undertaking opposed by massive vested interests) that's only half the battle. To make that work, you'd need a huge switch on the consumer demand side and that's an even larger undertaking opposed by even larger and more powerful vested interests (US culture itself).
US food culture is led by the nose by the food producers.
__________________
"It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize."
Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Oct 27th 2011, 10:59 AM
pramjockey's Avatar
pramjockey pramjockey is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,051
Default Re: Pig factory farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
US food culture is led by the nose by the food producers.
Which food culture?

I'd argue that there are several food cultures within the US. Anything from the raw food guys to the slow food movement to the "I don't cook" people.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008 - 2017, DiscussionWorldForum.com