Keynesianism in 4 Simple Lessons

[Michael]

Originally Posted by dilettante

I think it might go better if you tried to talk more about specific economic policies/approaches and less about vague, poorly-defined, disputed terms like "Keynesianism" and "macroeconomics."

Discussing whether or not a particular monetary policy is useful or not sounds a whole lot more interesting and worthwhile than arguing over whether or not it should be called "Keynesian."

Agreed. I'll be happy to address any particular and specific economic issue.

I'm really getting tired of just swatting down rightwing propaganda shit over and over again. But I'm not going to stand by and have Keynes' economic theories get trashed by rightwing propaganda arguments, so I'll keep swatting.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Let me add that I don't expect things to go better. Centralized planning and socialism are more popular than ever, and Bernie Sanders might well even get elected as President or Vice President.

I'm just more of less engaging in a "philosophy slam," trying to whittle away extraneous layers of BS and get down to some basic truths, for grins.

Then why are you focusing on the propaganda? If you want to address the issue, address the actual issues, not the propaganda that gets thrown around the issue.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

I don't expect that a whole lot of people are suddenly going to embrace free enterprise any more than I expect the hundreds of millions of people who embrace the Abrahamic religions are suddenly going to become agnostics.

I'm hardcore classical liberal and always have been. Are you accusing me of being anti-free enterprise? Do you think that Keynes was anti-free enterprise? If you think Keynes or myself are anti-free enterprise, well, then there is just nothing to discuss here.

[Tom Palven]

Originally Posted by Michael

If you think Keynes or myself are anti-free enterprise, well, then there is just nothing to discuss here.

You have finally convinced me. We are all Keynesians now, Michael.

[Tom Palven]

And I'm all in for Sanders now, too, Michael.

Keynesianism seems similar to The Emperor's New Clothes or to a $200 bottle of wine.

If one can't appreciate any $200 or $500/bottle of wine more than a glass of Yellowtail or Twisted Vine, one doesn't have a single sophisticated taste bud in one's mouth.

And if one can't appreciate Keynesian economics, or Bernie Sanders, for that matter, one is a misanthropic Neanderthal, or a complete idiot, or both.

Simple as that. End of argument.

[Non Sequitur]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

...And if one can't appreciate Keynesian economics...

[Tom Palven]

Originally Posted by Non Sequitur

This is the way I see it.

Some preachers such as Pat Robertson claim that if you haven't almost memorized the Old and New Testaments, that you don't have a right to criticize Christianity.

I can't claim to be an religious scholar or a macroeconomics scholar.

I only attended Christian Sunday school, and only took introduction courses in macroeconomics and microeconomics in college. But I've come to the conclusion that microeconomics make perfect sense, while the macroeconomic and religious schools of thought are largely bogus, despite hundreds of millions of people having complete faith in them.


And I'd say that despite Keynes claiming that his economic schemes were an effort to save capitalism, Keynesianism is used today as apologetics for the command economics of socialism, and even less useful than Christian prayers because Keynesianism is not only useless, but counterproductive.

That's my humble opinion.

However, I like your quote from The Princess Bride, The Greatest Story Ever Told. My favorite line is "Throw me the rope."

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

You have finally convinced me. We are all Keynesians now, Michael.

But please note that US monetary and fiscal policy doesn't follow Keynes at all (though they did for a while back in the 50's and early 60's). Since the mid-1960's it has been all deficits all the time, non-stop. That's anti-Keynesian.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

And I'd say that despite Keynes claiming that his economic schemes were an effort to save capitalism, Keynesianism is used today as apologetics for the command economics of socialism, and even less useful than Christian prayers because Keynesianism is not only useless, but counterproductive.

That's my humble opinion.

Yes, you've repeated that opinion multiple times, but you've never offered a single concrete example for us to discuss.

And as I've noted [repeatedly], the idea of running endless deficits, or just deficit spending generally is NOT Keynesian at all, no matter how many rightwing pundits assert otherwise. Keynes has nothing to do with socialism or command economies.

Btw, I've never heard of anyone ever using Keynes as an apologetic for a socialist command economy. That usage of the term seems to be entirely unique to US rightwing politics.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

However, I like your quote from The Princess Bride, The Greatest Story Ever Told. My favorite line is "Throw me the rope."

That quote from the Princess Bride is by far the most famous line from that movie. It is in itself, an internet meme.

[Tom Palven]

Originally Posted by Michael

That quote from the Princess Bride is by far the most famous line from that movie. It is in itself, an internet meme.

Inigo: Hey down there, could you speed things up?

Man in Black: If you're in such a hurry, you could lower a rope, or a tree branch, or find something useful to do.

Inigo: I could do that. I have got some rope up here. But I do not think that you would accept my help, since I am only waiting around to kill you.

Man in Black: That does put a damper on our relationship.

Inigo: I give you my word as a Spaniard.

Man in Black: No good. I've known too many Spaniards.

Inigo: Is there nothing I can do to convince you?

Man in Black: Nothing I can think of.

(Pause)

Inigo: I swear upon the soul of my father Domingo Montoya, you will make it to the top alive.

Man in Black: Throw me the rope.