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  #1  
Old Jan 4th 2014, 07:53 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default A real Admiral is dead :(

The man who challenged Yeltsin over Chechnya has shot himself with his service pistol in Saint Petersburg.
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/713731

Vice-Admiral Yuri Ustimenko

He was just a few months shy of 70 years old...

This man had fought for the Soviet Union all over the world, he'd been to Vietnam, Angola, all kinds of places, one of the most decorated combat officers ever. A true officer, with honor and principles. He was against the war in Chechnya in the 90s. He was in command of the Northern Fleet back then, and when Yeltsin ordered him to send his Marines to fight in Chechnya, he refused to follow that order, he did not want his troops killing their own fellow citizens. He was stripped of his command for that. Yeltsin even sent his loyal FSB agents to arrest him, but, on ramp to the Fleet's flagship, Pyotr Velikiy, where the Admiral was, the FSB men were met by equally well armed sailors and Marines, who were ready to defend their ship and their Admiral to the last drop of blood. The Navals knew they were committing mutiny, but the FSBers knew that if they tried to storm aboard the flagship anyway, the entire Fleet could mutiny along with the Pyotr Velikiy, we are talking thousands of Marines, tens of thousands of sailors and submariners, an aircraft carrier, several cruisers and destroyers, a couple dozen attack submarines armed with nuclear missiles, etc. Not something they would be able to put down, a new revolution. Last one, in 1917, began with the Navy too, recall, the Baltic Fleet mutiny

So, they backed off, but he still had to later accept the move to Saint Petersburg, an effective demotion.

Some would call him a traitor, others - a hero who stood on his principles. I am among the second.
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  #2  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Some would call him a traitor, others - a hero who stood on his principles. I am among the second.
He is a traitor plain and simple and deserves to be shot (regardless if you agree with him or not).

It is the sworn and solemn duty of a military officer to follow the orders of his civilian government. Failure to do so is treason.

It really is that simple. Military officers have ZERO rights to refuse orders.
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  #3  
Old Jan 5th 2014, 06:41 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
He is a traitor plain and simple and deserves to be shot (regardless if you agree with him or not).

It is the sworn and solemn duty of a military officer to follow the orders of his civilian government. Failure to do so is treason.

It really is that simple. Military officers have ZERO rights to refuse orders.
If there were more officers like him, Yeltsin would not have been able to start a war in Chechnya and destabilize the whole North Caucasian region into what it is today.
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  #4  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
If there were more officers like him, Yeltsin would not have been able to start a war in Chechnya and destabilize the whole North Caucasian region into what it is today.
That may be true. But that just shows what a terrible leader Yeltsin was.

A military cannot function if high ranking officers pick and choose what orders to follow.

Any officer refusing to obey a direct order from an official superior, deserves to be shot. That's the way it has always been. It is a good rule for a good reason. He should be officially charged, stripped of rank, shot, discharged dishonorably and pension stripped (make his family suffer too). He is the worst type of scum (I hate it when elites are able to get away with acting like slimeballs without paying a price for it).

If the Admiral didn't like his orders, he has only two choices. A) Follow the orders, or B) resign. He's a slimeball, plain and simple. Russia's military is shit and its reputation shall suffer because it keeps this man. I certainly have just lost a large amount of respect for Russia's military - it is now run like a 3rd world banana republic.

A true hero is the Navy man who stands up and puts a bullet in this guy's forehead for insulting the Russian Navy. That would be heroic.
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Old May 9th 2014, 03:43 PM
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NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
when Yeltsin ordered him to send his Marines to fight in Chechnya, he refused to follow that order, he did not want his troops killing their own fellow citizens.
Some would call him a traitor, others - a hero who stood on his principles. I am among the second.
But look what you write below.
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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Putin is not our enemy.
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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
I think you should speak for yourself. I think other Russians like the very courageous Pussy Riot and Nikolay Alekseyev might speak differently.

Regardless, you should say 'my' rather than 'our'. All those Muscovites who demonstrated against him and the people I mentioned in the first paragraph are just as Russian as you are.
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At a time of conflict, one stand with his leader. Otherwise, one is a traitor.
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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
Do you regard Americans who demonstrated against George W. Bush's Iraq war as traitors?
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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Frankly, by definition, yes, even though their goals and intentions were noble, I am sure. When your country is at war, you must support your country.
http://www.discussionworldforum.com/...ead.php?t=5037
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  #6  
Old May 10th 2014, 07:18 PM
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NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

YouYourselfAndYou, I would be grateful for a response from you to my previous post on this link.
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  #7  
Old May 10th 2014, 07:19 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
YouYourselfAndYou, I would be grateful for a response from you to my previous post on this link.
I was talking about EXTERNAL conflicts in that other post. Shooting at your own fellow citizens is obviously different.
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  #8  
Old Nov 6th 2014, 04:46 PM
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NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
The man who challenged Yeltsin over Chechnya has shot himself with his service pistol in Saint Petersburg.
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/713731

Vice-Admiral Yuri Ustimenko

He was just a few months shy of 70 years old...

This man had fought for the Soviet Union all over the world, he'd been to Vietnam, Angola, all kinds of places, one of the most decorated combat officers ever. A true officer, with honor and principles. He was against the war in Chechnya in the 90s. He was in command of the Northern Fleet back then, and when Yeltsin ordered him to send his Marines to fight in Chechnya, he refused to follow that order, he did not want his troops killing their own fellow citizens. He was stripped of his command for that. Yeltsin even sent his loyal FSB agents to arrest him, but, on ramp to the Fleet's flagship, Pyotr Velikiy, where the Admiral was, the FSB men were met by equally well armed sailors and Marines, who were ready to defend their ship and their Admiral to the last drop of blood. The Navals knew they were committing mutiny, but the FSBers knew that if they tried to storm aboard the flagship anyway, the entire Fleet could mutiny along with the Pyotr Velikiy, we are talking thousands of Marines, tens of thousands of sailors and submariners, an aircraft carrier, several cruisers and destroyers, a couple dozen attack submarines armed with nuclear missiles, etc. Not something they would be able to put down, a new revolution. Last one, in 1917, began with the Navy too, recall, the Baltic Fleet mutiny

So, they backed off, but he still had to later accept the move to Saint Petersburg, an effective demotion.

Some would call him a traitor, others - a hero who stood on his principles. I am among the second.
How does he compare with Snowden and Litwinienko?
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  #9  
Old Nov 6th 2014, 11:03 PM
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Michael Michael is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
How does he compare with Snowden and Litwinienko?
Good question!
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  #10  
Old Nov 7th 2014, 01:43 AM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: A real Admiral is dead :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
How does he compare with Snowden and Litwinienko?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Good question!
He did not betray Russia to an enemy and cause harm to her. I understand people were killed because of information outed by Snowden or Assange. And Litvinenko also caused damage to Russian intelligence networks in the West, although he also opened our eyes about atrocities committed by FSB to justify the war in Chechnya.
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