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Old Aug 19th 2013, 08:44 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default How the West could help Russian gays

Not through boycotts and such.

I read this

Quote:
Gay Russian teens communicate in secret to avoid law on 'propaganda'

Young homosexuals faced with hatred and rejection in Russia turn to closed internet forum Deti-404 for support


Youths kick a gay rights activist in Moscow during a protest in June. Photograph: Maxim Shemetov /Reuters

Only one person knew that Svetlana was gay when she wrote to Deti-404, a Russian support group for lesbian teenagers. In her letter, the 16-year-old described a life of hiding her sexuality in a small town in central Russia where a man had been killed for being a homosexual. "I am scared that they will find out about me and lynch me. Sometimes I want to cry out: 'Accept me for who I am! Or at least be tolerant of me'," she wrote.
Deti-404, which takes its name from the error page that appears when a website does not exist, was set up by Lena Klimova, 25, after she wrote an article about the plight of LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) teenagers. She had no plans to do anything further, but then she got a letter from Nadya, 15. "Nadya was hounded at school, her mother didn't support her," said Klimova in an interview with the Observer. "She decided to die, accidentally read my article and didn't do it."
After Klimova had spoken to Nadya by telephone and understood the depths of her despair, she asked herself: "Why does nobody ring alarm bells, not scream, not shout about it on every corner?" She added: "Many of them close in on themselves, they don't tell anyone. They are scared of parents and classmates. If they open up, parents sometimes beat them, insult them, throw them out, take away their phones, ban them from going on the internet and even lock them up in a psychiatric clinic."
The small support group is one of the few for young gay people in Russia. It would also seem to be exactly the thing that the controversial anti-gay law passed by the Russian parliament wishes to crack down on. The law, similar to the section 28 law that was passed by Margaret Thatcher's government in 1988, bans the dissemination of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual orientation" towards under-18s and imposes fines on anyone convicted.
The legislation has caused an outcry in the west, leading Stephen Fry to compared the situation of gays and lesbians in Russia to that of Jews in Nazi Germany. In an open letter to David Cameron and the International Olympic Committee, Fry called for the Winter Olympic Games in Sochi next year to be taken away from Russia. But the prime minister, in a Twitter reply, said he thought prejudice was better challenged by attending the Games rather than boycotting them. Last week the IOC obtained assurances from the Kremlin that competing athletes would not be affected by the law. But for Russia's LGBT community, the latest move has simply ratcheted up the pressure still further.
When she set up the group, Klimova surveyed 115 LGBT teenagers all over Russia, creating a closed forum for the teens to interact. Her survey showed that a number had thought of suicide. Fewer than half had come out to their parents. "It is only on the internet that they can find somebody to speak to," she said. "The feeling that most of these children feel is constant fear."
Some of the teens' letters are shown on the Deti-404 page, with pictures of the authors with their faces obscured so that no one can recognise them.
When a teenager gets in touch, if necessary Klimova helps them speak to a sensitive psychologist. "I tell practically all of them that they are needed, unique and invaluable. I am not pretending. It is true," she said.
Teenagers in smaller towns – where there are few, if any, openly out people and no gay scene – have it the hardest. "Our school is considered progressive, but it is quite normal for teachers to say that homosexuals will burn in hell," wrote one 16-year-old from a small town "which isn't even on the map".
Svetlana was once having dinner and on one of "the damn channels of this no less damnable country there was a show about LGBT". She remembers the scorn and contempt of her mother. "She calls homosexuals – and that means me too – mutants." Her father said he was ready to go out with his gun and kill them, while her older sister said they should be treated in psychiatric hospitals. Svetlana has still not come out to her family.
Homosexuality was only legalised in Russia in 1993. Now the new law is in danger of breaking the morale of some of those who see only a future of concealment and unhappiness. "When they passed the law, all the teens I know were in despair. You know, in reality, the law is aimed at them," said Klimova.
Vicious physical assaults have continued with depressing frequency. A man in Volgograd was murdered after revealing to friends that he was gay. A vigilante group lured young teens on social media by pretending to be older men looking for sex and then humiliated them on videos which they uploaded to the internet. "LGBT are called paedophiles, carriers of HIV/Aids, whatever you want, but not normal people. Of course people feel that and of course there are more hate crimes," said Klimova.
She is certain that there will be no boycott of the Winter Olympics. But she does have one plea. "Sportsmen can go to the opening ceremony with a rainbow flag in support of Russian LGBT. It would be very valuable," she said.
Some names have been changed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...propaganda-law

And while it is all very sad, it also made me think: notice, much of this happens in small towns, where people are less educated, and more ignorant, which makes them easily influenced by the propaganda, whether from government, the Orthodox Church, etc. At the same time, those gay youths are completely isolated, have nobody to talk to, except this group, but there are, indeed, very rare, and probably the authorities will try to shut them all down, if they are not already doing so.

So, I think, the West could help these people by doing two things, both of them using the internet:
  1. Provide a social network of sorts for the gay youths from Russia to, perhaps, communicate with gays from the West, to show them they are not alone and such, keep their spirits going.
  2. More Russians, even in small towns, are connected to the worldwide web these days. The West can use the internet to educate people here that the gays are not evil or sick, they are not "mutants" and such, and should not to be killed or locked away in psychiatric institutions. As more people learn this, hopefully they will resist the propaganda more, maybe even start to help and protect the gays, as begin to accept them as people and as fellow Russians.
I think that would be the most potentially effective strategy for the West to deal with this problem. If you want to change Russia, you have to do it from the inside. The Byzantine Greeks understood that. That is how the Orthodox Church came about, you know They realized they could not convert us by force, because could not defeat us in battle. Instead, their emissaries persuaded and convinced our leader at the time, Duke Vladimir, of the benefits of Orthodoxy, as compared to the traditional paganism they were still practicing then. The Duke and his warlords than Christened us themselves.


That is how it always worked here Change from the inside.
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  #2  
Old Aug 20th 2013, 12:59 AM
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Not through boycotts and such.

I read this



http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...propaganda-law

And while it is all very sad, it also made me think: notice, much of this happens in small towns, where people are less educated, and more ignorant, which makes them easily influenced by the propaganda, whether from government, the Orthodox Church, etc. At the same time, those gay youths are completely isolated, have nobody to talk to, except this group, but there are, indeed, very rare, and probably the authorities will try to shut them all down, if they are not already doing so.

So, I think, the West could help these people by doing two things, both of them using the internet:
  1. Provide a social network of sorts for the gay youths from Russia to, perhaps, communicate with gays from the West, to show them they are not alone and such, keep their spirits going.
  2. More Russians, even in small towns, are connected to the worldwide web these days. The West can use the internet to educate people here that the gays are not evil or sick, they are not "mutants" and such, and should not to be killed or locked away in psychiatric institutions. As more people learn this, hopefully they will resist the propaganda more, maybe even start to help and protect the gays, as begin to accept them as people and as fellow Russians.
On the first point, I'm sure that gay Russians will already know from the Internet how much support they have in the West (as long as they know English). Westerners are expressing a lot of support, and any web-user who knows English will already know that, I'm sure.

On the 2nd point, we can't tell people what to think. We can only make sure they know what we think, and I'm sure they are well aware of that, as long as they know English and have access to the Internet.

When it comes to the new law by Putin, I think there's no point in just telling Russians that we don't like that law. It's better for us to focus on the fact that it's not only homophobic, but it also goes against freedom of expression. They are probably well-versed in responding to accusations of homophobia, but they will feel less comfortable defending the curtailment of freedom of speech. That is why it's important that we all remember to let Russians know that we think that Yelena Isnibayeva has the right to express her own opinion, although it's a shame she doesn't want other people to have the same right.
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  #3  
Old Aug 20th 2013, 11:39 AM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
On the first point, I'm sure that gay Russians will already know from the Internet how much support they have in the West (as long as they know English). Westerners are expressing a lot of support, and any web-user who knows English will already know that, I'm sure.

On the 2nd point, we can't tell people what to think. We can only make sure they know what we think, and I'm sure they are well aware of that, as long as they know English and have access to the Internet.

When it comes to the new law by Putin, I think there's no point in just telling Russians that we don't like that law. It's better for us to focus on the fact that it's not only homophobic, but it also goes against freedom of expression. They are probably well-versed in responding to accusations of homophobia, but they will feel less comfortable defending the curtailment of freedom of speech. That is why it's important that we all remember to let Russians know that we think that Yelena Isnibayeva has the right to express her own opinion, although it's a shame she doesn't want other people to have the same right.
I did not say tell people what to think, I said educate. The big problem here, is that, for most people, what they know about the gays is what the government and the Church put into their heads, ugly stereotypes, that gays are all pedophiles and such. I used to think like that too, but learned better here on this forum, from you people. Now, if I'm on the street, and I see some hooligans beating up a gay or transvestite, like in that video, I would chase them off. There was a time when I probably would have joined them, because the Church tells us to beat such people, sodomites, without mercy. But you all opened my eyes to the error of that. That is the power of the internet. Use it, that is all I am saying, open other people's eyes to the problem. Then, there will be real change.
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Old Aug 20th 2013, 12:13 PM
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
I did not say tell people what to think, I said educate. The big problem here, is that, for most people, what they know about the gays is what the government and the Church put into their heads, ugly stereotypes, that gays are all pedophiles and such. I used to think like that too, but learned better here on this forum, from you people. Now, if I'm on the street, and I see some hooligans beating up a gay or transvestite, like in that video, I would chase them off. There was a time when I probably would have joined them, because the Church tells us to beat such people, sodomites, without mercy. But you all opened my eyes to the error of that. That is the power of the internet. Use it, that is all I am saying, open other people's eyes to the problem. Then, there will be real change.
YouYourselfAndYou, I am very happy to see that you have changed your views on gay people, and I thank you for educating me a lot about Russia. I really do admire the act of saying that you have learnt something, and I hope that I haven't come across as too arrogant. There is a lot of western arrogance around, unfortunately. After all, it's the Russians who learn English, not the Anglo-Americans who learn Russian, so perhaps Putin's popularity stems from the arrogance that Russians sometimes see from the west.
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Old Aug 20th 2013, 12:22 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
YouYourselfAndYou, I am very happy to see that you have changed your views on gay people, and I thank you for educating me a lot about Russia. I really do admire the act of saying that you have learnt something, and I hope that I haven't come across as too arrogant. There is a lot of western arrogance around, unfortunately. After all, it's the Russians who learn English, not the Anglo-Americans who learn Russian, so perhaps Putin's popularity stems from the arrogance that Russians sometimes see from the west.
Well, Russians certainly despise foreigners telling them what to do But as for arrogance, we have as much of that as any Western country, probably more so, still treating many of the ex-Soviet Republics as our domains, and acting surprised when they resent that
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Old Aug 27th 2013, 11:38 AM
Pestilence Pestilence is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

The problem in Russia is that heterosexual men are frustrated, under-achieving drunks, so more and more Russian women are sharing their emotions with homo-Russian men who are willing to listen to women without ridicule.

So the average Russian macho-man see gay men as a threat on 2 fronts. Russian men are in a heap of trouble and sooner or later an increasing number of Russian women will be jumping into bed with homosexual men and enjoying them more than their drunken, heterosexual husbands.
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Old Aug 27th 2013, 12:14 PM
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
The problem in Russia is that heterosexual men are frustrated, under-achieving drunks, so more and more Russian women are sharing their emotions with homo-Russian men who are willing to listen to women without ridicule.

So the average Russian macho-man see gay men as a threat on 2 fronts. Russian men are in a heap of trouble and sooner or later an increasing number of Russian women will be jumping into bed with homosexual men and enjoying them more than their drunken, heterosexual husbands.
I don't agree with this. There are plenty of homophobic women in Russia (correct me if I'm wrong, YouYourselfAndYou).
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Old Aug 27th 2013, 12:45 PM
Pestilence Pestilence is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

What?
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Old Aug 27th 2013, 12:47 PM
NickKIELCEPoland NickKIELCEPoland is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

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What?
I don't agree with this. There are plenty of homophobic women in Russia (correct me if I'm wrong, YouYourselfAndYou).
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Old Aug 27th 2013, 12:51 PM
Pestilence Pestilence is offline
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Default Re: How the West could help Russian gays

Are you speaking about me or someone else
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