MONORAIL? What Monorail?

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Dominick

It looks great, no question about that, but with an investment of 6 billion roubles, only 6 stations and 4.7 km of track and 12,000 users a day at a ticket price of 26 rouble it wouldn't stand a chance of getting built in an environment where only money matters (e.g. US or EU).

Indeed. These monorail projects are 'eyecandy' projects. They look pretty, but they aren't actually "mass transit". Las Vegas has one just like this, as does Disneyworld. Both places use them for tourists. Neither one is actually useful as transit.

These monorails don't scale up - we need trains that are 20 times longer (or 20 times more trains which means 20 times more driver/operators which means way more cost).

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by Dominick

It looks great, no question about that, but with an investment of 6 billion roubles, only 6 stations and 4.7 km of track and 12,000 users a day at a ticket price of 26 rouble it wouldn't stand a chance of getting built in an environment where only money matters (e.g. US or EU).

If everything you say is true then it would stand a chance if flaunting your wealth and hobnobbing it with the rich were your thing and the 6 stations and 4.7 km of track serviced the ritzy part of town. I mean some people buy dreadfully expensive brand-name trainer shoes for toddlers, and those will only fit for a single season.

Note that HeHimselfAndHim (on another thread) made a point of saying he only travelled the underground when he was skint. In other words he doesn't want to be associated with "those kinds of people".

So if the Monorail were a thing for the wealthy, then it might work!

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by Michael

These monorails don't scale up - we need trains that are 20 times longer (or 20 times more trains which means 20 times more driver/operators which means way more cost).

Hmmm. I cannot agree with that theory. One chauffeur per how many paying commuters did you say? The odds are against your statement, I think.

By the way ..... there is a Metro line in Copenhagen that operates without a chauffeur. It runs on automatic pilot and it's as fun as a roller coaster to sit up front with nothing but a windscreen in front of you.

[Donkey]

Here's our current pie in the (literal) sky transit fantasy:

http://www.clevelandskylift.com/

I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be cool no doubt. It's billed as a mix between mass transit and tourist attraction. There is actually one truly commuter skylift in the world that I know of, in Medellin, which is built not to cart rich people around, but as access to the poor barrios up the hills.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

If everything you say is true then it would stand a chance if flaunting your wealth and hobnobbing it with the rich were your thing and the 6 stations and 4.7 km of track serviced the ritzy part of town. I mean some people buy dreadfully expensive brand-name trainer shoes for toddlers, and those will only fit for a single season.

Note that HeHimselfAndHim (on another thread) made a point of saying he only travelled the underground when he was skint. In other words he doesn't want to be associated with "those kinds of people".

So if the Monorail were a thing for the wealthy, then it might work!

Well, why not? On the regular railway, we already have a special train for the rich

The average people traveling between Moscow and Saint Petersburg take regular long distance trains


Two way ticket costs 2,114 rubles, gets you there in roughly one night.

But, if you can afford it, you can pay, depending on class of accommodation and service, 4-7,000 rubles to be whisked between the two capitals at 300 kilometers per hour on the "Sapsan"

Takes 3 hours, and along the way, you are served amazing food

In 2010, when the company that makes the meals for Sapsan also signed contracts to supply several Russian airlines, there were headlines like this: "Airline passenger will now be fed like Sapsan travelers!"
http://www.dp.ru/a/2010/07/21/V_samo...achnut_kormit/
The food is great, and I have only experienced 3d and 2nd class... In 1st, they probably get served bloody black caviar with priceless French wine

Tested personally by His Majesty


There is now a Sapsan line to Nizhny Novgorod also.

So, why not a high-class Metro too? lol Class distinctions and segregation is what Russia is all about anyway. The "elita" keeping itself above the poor, drunk, dirty "bydlo"...

And I am now a part of it too, as you say. But, to be fair, I am not like that, do not look down upon lower class people. The reason we do not use the Metro anymore, is simply because I do not want to expose my family to the aggressive behavior, drunkenness, crime, and infection that go on down there. It is is a safety decision, not a social one.

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

..... Class distinctions and segregation is what Russia is all about anyway. The "elita" keeping itself above the poor, drunk, dirty "bydlo"...

Yes, I know.

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

...... The reason we do not use the Metro anymore, is simply because I do not want to expose my family to the aggressive behavior, drunkenness, crime, and infection that go on down there.

......... as I was saying.

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

It is is a safety decision, not a social one.

No offense, but isn't it pretty much the same thing?

Ps. I didn't miss the Toblerone "FRONT AND CENTRE"!

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by Donkey

Here's our current pie in the (literal) sky transit fantasy:

http://www.clevelandskylift.com/

I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be cool no doubt. It's billed as a mix between mass transit and tourist attraction.

Snazy! It doesn't look very cost efficient though. Unstable, making it "weather permitting" operatable, limited space, "one to one" stations therefore changing stations compulsory. I agree with you that it will never happen.

Originally Posted by Donkey

There is actually one truly commuter skylift in the world that I know of, in Medellin, which is built not to cart rich people around, but as access to the poor barrios up the hills.

Found it!

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

..... By the way ..... there is a Metro line in Copenhagen that operates without a chauffeur. It runs on automatic pilot and it's as fun as a roller coaster to sit up front with nothing but a windscreen in front of you.

I see there a few youtube vids on the automatic pilot Metro in Copenhagen. As I was saying, with no chauffeur, sitting up front is the cool thing to do. I'm linking this one because it includes both above an under ground segments.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Q4B331ewk

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I see there a few youtube vids on the automatic pilot Metro in Copenhagen. As I was saying, with no chauffeur, sitting up front is the cool thing to do. I'm linking this one because it includes both above an under ground segments.

Unions tend to make that impossible to impliment in practice.

Here in North America, electric trains have been travelling for half a century carrying a "fireman" who was responsible for shovelling coal into the steam engine (that didn't exist). That "fireman" just sat on the train like a passenger, his wages guarenteed by the railway union - for life.

Which is one of the reasons that rail travel in North America pretty much died half a century ago - because train travel was too expensive compared to cars, buses or planes.

Since all mass-transit that I know of is unionized (since they are public employees), that pretty much makes it impossible to have driver-less trains/subways/monorails. The unions would fight that tooth and nail.

[Pestilence]

Originally Posted by Michael

Unions tend to make that impossible to impliment in practice.

Here in North America, electric trains have been travelling for half a century carrying a "fireman" who was responsible for shovelling coal into the steam engine (that didn't exist). That "fireman" just sat on the train like a passenger, his wages guarenteed by the railway union - for life.

Which is one of the reasons that rail travel in North America pretty much died half a century ago - because train travel was too expensive compared to cars, buses or planes.

Since all mass-transit that I know of is unionized (since they are public employees), that pretty much makes it impossible to have driver-less trains/subways/monorails. The unions would fight that tooth and nail.

I can take your word for that. However, the U.S. is lacking terribly in public transport and I do not believe one can lay the blame for that upon the Unions, driver-less or otherwise.

The upshot is that if your theory is correct then something else is wrong, because sustainable and affordable transport is available.

And then there are electric cars that are so efficient and ....... well, I am sure you know all about that already.