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Old Feb 6th 2017, 05:51 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default "Human Trafficking"

Can anyone point me to an article that debunks the "human trafficking" scare, scam, hoax, lie, or whatever it is?

To me this relatively new-sounding cause is just the same old Carrie Nation morality crusade along the lines of combatting alcohol consumption or Reefer Madness.

Kidnapping constitutes coercion and is unethical and illegal everywhere, but this anti-human trafficking is focused much more on the prevention of voluntary prostitution than kidnapping and involuntary servitude.

I've searched a bit in Wendy McElroy's site, tried a google search that included Greta Christina and COYOTE, but so far haven't found what I'm looking for.
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Old Feb 6th 2017, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Wait what leads you to believe that human trafficking isn't a real problem? Also a lot of that "voluntary" prostitution that you are referring to is absolutely coercive.
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Old Feb 6th 2017, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Can anyone point me to an article that debunks the "human trafficking" scare, scam, hoax, lie, or whatever it is?

To me this relatively new-sounding cause is just the same old Carrie Nation morality crusade along the lines of combatting alcohol consumption or Reefer Madness.

Kidnapping constitutes coercion and is unethical and illegal everywhere, but this anti-human trafficking is focused much more on the prevention of voluntary prostitution than kidnapping and involuntary servitude.

I've searched a bit in Wendy McElroy's site, tried a google search that included Greta Christina and COYOTE, but so far haven't found what I'm looking for.
I'm not familiar with any reputable source (or irreputable, for that matter) demonstrating that human trafficking isn't a problem.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind and are now trying to find evidence to support your presumed conclusion. Isn't that doing things a bit backwards?
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Old Feb 7th 2017, 06:51 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

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Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
I'm not familiar with any reputable source (or irreputable, for that matter) demonstrating that human trafficking isn't a problem.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind and are now trying to find evidence to support your presumed conclusion. Isn't that doing things a bit backwards?
I don't know if it's backwards or forwards, but in any case, I was sent this link this morning that addresses some of the BS associated with the Anti-Trafficking Crusade:
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/...tly-told-lies/
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Old Feb 7th 2017, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Can anyone point me to an article that debunks the "human trafficking" scare, scam, hoax, lie, or whatever it is?

To me this relatively new-sounding cause is just the same old Carrie Nation morality crusade along the lines of combatting alcohol consumption or Reefer Madness.

Kidnapping constitutes coercion and is unethical and illegal everywhere, but this anti-human trafficking is focused much more on the prevention of voluntary prostitution than kidnapping and involuntary servitude.

I've searched a bit in Wendy McElroy's site, tried a google search that included Greta Christina and COYOTE, but so far haven't found what I'm looking for.
You have, quite obviously, never met anyone who has been involved in the sex trafficking trade before. It's a pretty horrible life.
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Old Feb 7th 2017, 05:09 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
You have, quite obviously, never met anyone who has been involved in the sex trafficking trade before. It's a pretty horrible life.
I've known lots of prostitutes, and the NJ Libertarian Party back in the day had a member whose name I know, but whose business name was Victoria Whitten, who ran a sex business of several women who she booked clients for in rooms in various hotels.

Anyway, I don't think that you, I, or any government has a legitimate right to tell women (or men) what they are allowed to do with their own bodies, regarding either abortion or sexual activities.

An interesting thing in researching prostitution just now is that prostitution is legal and unregulated in New Zealand, and legal or quasi-legal in different areas of Australia where Julian Assange is from.

However, according to Wikipedia, in Sweden where Assange is wanted on a sexual assault charge, "critics of prostitution view it as a form of exploitation and violence against women," and under the "Swedish legal approach" it is "illegal to buy sexual services, but not illegal to sell them."
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Old Feb 7th 2017, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
I don't know if it's backwards or forwards, but in any case, I was sent this link this morning that addresses some of the BS associated with the Anti-Trafficking Crusade:
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/...tly-told-lies/
Maggie McNeill apparently calls herself a "unretired call girl" and bills her blog as "The Honest Courtesan".

Doesn't sound like a very credible source.
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Old Feb 7th 2017, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
I've known lots of prostitutes, and the NJ Libertarian Party back in the day had a member whose name I know, but whose business name was Victoria Whitten, who ran a sex business of several women who she booked clients for in rooms in various hotels.

Anyway, I don't think that you, I, or any government has a legitimate right to tell women (or men) what they are allowed to do with their own bodies, regarding either abortion or sexual activities.

An interesting thing in researching prostitution just now is that prostitution is legal and unregulated in New Zealand, and legal or quasi-legal in different areas of Australia where Julian Assange is from.

However, according to Wikipedia, in Sweden where Assange is wanted on a sexual assault charge, "critics of prostitution view it as a form of exploitation and violence against women," and under the "Swedish legal approach" it is "illegal to buy sexual services, but not illegal to sell them."
The fact that there is ethical, non-coercive, sometimes legal prostitution does NOT mean that sex trafficking is not both real and a problem.
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Old Feb 8th 2017, 07:59 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

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Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
The fact that there is ethical, non-coercive, sometimes legal prostitution does NOT mean that sex trafficking is not both real and a problem.

People having to pick tomatoes in blazing hot fields, or as Junior High School teachers, is also a problem. :
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Old Feb 8th 2017, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

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People having to pick tomatoes in blazing hot fields, or as Junior High School teachers, is also a problem. :
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you are getting at here. My wife teaches 9th grade. It can be rough, but it's just not the same thing as sexual slavery. My first job was picking strawberries. Same deal.
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