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  #11  
Old Feb 8th 2017, 12:18 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you are getting at here. My wife teaches 9th grade. It can be rough, but it's just not the same thing as sexual slavery. My first job was picking strawberries. Same deal.
That was supposed to be funny, and was partially aimed at Stu Swirsky, an old teacher friend of mine, and as far as field work, I hoed a lot of rows of corn and beans as a kid.

The paragraphs below came from the links Stu Swirsky sent me since Ms.Susan Ert-ker sent me off on this thankless quest for knowledge a few days ago.

Three arguments against the conventional wisdom that human sex trafficking a major world-wide problem:


1. According to the Amazon.com. review of Sex at the Margins by Laura Maria Augustin, "This groundbreaking book explodes several myths: that selling sex is completely different than any other kind of work; that migrants who sell sex are passive victims; and that multitudes of people out to save them are without self-interest."
https://smile.amazon.com/Sex-Margins...at+the+margins


2. Zbigniew Dumienski (2012): Myths and Reality of Human Trafficking: A View from Southeast Asia.

From the introduction:

"Human trafficking is commonly seen as a heinous transnational crime affecting millions of migrants from all parts of the globe. According to the US government there are as many as 12.3 million victims of human trafficking world-wide and trafficking is a tremendous, multi-billion-dollar business run by both small networks of traffickers and, increasingly, by “large polycrime international criminal organizations” (US Department of State 2010). One could say that these are very alarming developments and that the authors of the preceding claims should be thanked and congratulated for bringing them so forcibly to public attention. The only problem is that it is difficult to find evidence that any of the above is true..."


3. From an article titled "...human trafficking?"* in Spiked news on line by Natalie Rothschild, July 10, 2007:

"What may look like a benevolent rescue-mission of young prostitutes and "domestic slaves" actually amounts, ultimately, to a clampdown on immigration itself."
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...0#.WJs7uPWcGUk
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Last edited by Tom Palven; Feb 8th 2017 at 12:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old Feb 9th 2017, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
1. According to the Amazon.com. review of Sex at the Margins by Laura Maria Augustin, "This groundbreaking book explodes several myths: that selling sex is completely different than any other kind of work; that migrants who sell sex are passive victims; and that multitudes of people out to save them are without self-interest."
https://smile.amazon.com/Sex-Margins...at+the+margins
1. "That selling sex is completely different than any kind of work" - I'm sure there are some people who believe this and some who don't. But if it is such a powerful "myth" that needs to be addressed, how come none of us have ever heard it before now? Smells like a strawman argument to me.

2. "that migrants who sell sex are passive victims". I'm sure some of them are not passive victims. I'm also sure that some of them are. But I'd put money on the fact that the vast majority of them are neither. Again, I've never heard this myth. Smells like another strawman.

3. "that multitudes of people out to save them are without self-interest." Really? Who made this one up? Anyone who thinks that is a moron. Humans rarely ever do anything without self interest. Same goes for those who are trying to debunk this myth - they have a self interest too. Chalk up another strawman argument.

In other words, even if selling sex isn't too much different than other types of work AND even if some migrants are in fact passive victims AND even if some people who are trying to help them are indeed acting on some self interest, NONE of this means that human trafficking for the purposes of prostitution doesn't exist, isn't widespread or that it isn't evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
2. Zbigniew Dumienski (2012): Myths and Reality of Human Trafficking: A View from Southeast Asia.

From the introduction:

"The only problem is that it is difficult to find evidence that any of the above is true..."
And it is apparently very difficult to rationally assert that it isn't true based simply upon some desire that it be untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
3. From an article titled "...human trafficking?"* in Spiked news on line by Natalie Rothschild, July 10, 2007:

"What may look like a benevolent rescue-mission of young prostitutes and "domestic slaves" actually amounts, ultimately, to a clampdown on immigration itself."
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...0#.WJs7uPWcGUk
And this is a problem how?

It is blatantly obvious that someone forced to be a migrant sex worker is going to be violating immigration laws as well and it is also quite reasonable and likely that the first or front-line government agency that is most likely to discover and address the issue or status of migrants being forced to work as sex slaves would be the immigration officials.

Btw, are we to presume that the people who are opposed to this are tireless champions of illegal immigrants with NO SELF INTEREST at all?
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  #13  
Old Feb 10th 2017, 06:20 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Do you think that sexual transactions between consenting adults should be prohibited by law?

Should abortions be prohibited by law?

Who should decide these things?

Who owns your body? The US Supreme Court, a state legislature, Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau, or you?

If you believe that you own your own body and that other adults own their own bodies, you are likely to be a libertarian (heaven forbid) and not a statist.
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  #14  
Old Feb 10th 2017, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Please stop conflating consensual sex work with sexual slavery.
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  #15  
Old Feb 10th 2017, 01:40 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Quote:
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Please stop conflating consensual sex work with sexual slavery.
I am totally opposed to kidnapping or any kind of slavery or involuntary servitude, all of which are, and should be, illegal.

Where the fuck have I indicated otherwise?
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  #16  
Old Mar 18th 2017, 04:03 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

Would the CIA/Deep State prefer to wring their hands promoting the narrative of "human trafficking" rather than discuss the daily murder and maiming of innocent men, women, and children with their drones and bombs?
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/03/17/u...illing-scores/
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  #17  
Old Mar 25th 2017, 09:45 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

The new book, Finks: How the CIA Tricked the World's Best Writers, January 10, 2017, has a tangential relationship to the term "human trafficking."
https://www.amazon.com/Finks-C-I-Tri...s+best+writers

This is the story:

A large slick magazine-type booklet with the scary title International Trafficking in Women to the United States: A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime is available from Amazon, which lists the author as State Dept. Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

There are no credits whatsoever on the booklet as to author, publisher, etc., and the only identifying statement is at the bottom of the last page- "Made in the USA, Lexington, KY, 20 February 2017."

A google search on the name took me to this site...
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...rafficking.pdf
... which shows that the booklet was first published by the CIA in 1999.

The timing of the first publication shows that if the CIA did not actually invent the Newspeak term "Human Trafficking" to replace the older terms, "kidnapping," "slavery," and "involuntary servitude" which have been, and should be, illegal since the end of the Civil War, that the CIA was very early in promoting the use of the term as a new and scary phenomenon.

If you go to the CIA link it will tell you that neither the State Department, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, nor the Central Intelligence Agency endorse the material contained in the booklet, and yet they published it.

One might assume that there are policy-makers at the CIA who are concerned about the welfare of foreign women, but this is extremely doubtful, as John Whitney explains in his book Finks.

The Amazon book review of Finks points out that it's unlikely that the powers-that-be at the CIA actually give a leaping lap dance about the welfare of foreign women, putting it this way:

"Finks demonstrates how the good-versus-bad CIA is a false divide, and that the cultural cold warriors again and again used anti-communism as a lever to spy relentlessly on leftists, and indeed writers of all political persuasions, and thereby pushed U.S. democracy closer to the Soviet model of the surveillance state."
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Last edited by Tom Palven; Mar 25th 2017 at 09:55 AM.
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  #18  
Old Apr 28th 2017, 05:46 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: "Human Trafficking"

When you consider that the CIA/MIC kills women and children every day with drones and bombs, and that sociopathic neoconservatives in the CIA/MIC are creamin' in their jeans to kill tens of thousands more in Iran and North Korea, and that they express great allegiance to Saudi Arabia, the most misogynistic regime in the world, you gotta ask yourself how much to these guys really care about sexual trafficking of foreign women.
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/04/27/r...previous-year/

Does this compute?

What am I missing? Some kind of blind patriotism? My regime uber alles?
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