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  #1  
Old Oct 28th 2013, 12:20 PM
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Dominick Dominick is offline
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Default The Internet Archive

Something for old farts, nostalgic nerds and curious youngsters:

The Historical Software Collection

An example; Before Excel there was Lotus 1-2-3; before that there was Symphony and before that there was Visicalc !

See also the Classic PC Games and ancient Windows applications.

ImagePro ! Editpad ! WinGif ! HexEdit ! PFE ! LViewPro !
LOL, I used all that shit.
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  #2  
Old Oct 28th 2013, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Something for old farts, nostalgic nerds and curious youngsters:

The Historical Software Collection

An example; Before Excel there was Lotus 1-2-3; before that there was Symphony and before that there was Visicalc !
Symphony was a programming language for Lotus 123 if I recall correctly. And Excel is a 100% clone of Lotus 123 and always has been.

I've often suggested that 15 year old computers running Dos 3.3 and Lotus 123 could process big spreadsheet calcs faster than present day top line computers running Windows and Excel whatever version they are at now.

All that computer power and technological advancement just to power a freakin' mouse.

Yes, computers are that pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
See also the Classic PC Games and ancient Windows applications.

ImagePro ! Editpad ! WinGif ! HexEdit ! PFE ! LViewPro !
LOL, I used all that shit.
Yes, I used LViewPro for years, but not any more. I use Irfanview now - a similar but equally good program. I still use HexEdit because nothing can replace that kind of power.

And Notepad++ is where its at for the ultimate notepad software. That prog can handle all kinds of file formats!
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Old Oct 30th 2013, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Symphony was a programming language for Lotus 123 if I recall correctly.
No, it was a suite with a word processor, a spreadsheet (1-2-3), charts, etc. which was a successor of 1-2-3. I got the chronology wrong.

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And Excel is a 100% clone of Lotus 123 and always has been.
I'm not sure but I think Excel had a graphical interface before 1-2-3.

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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I've often suggested that 15 year old computers running Dos 3.3 and Lotus 123 could process big spreadsheet calcs faster than present day top line computers running Windows and Excel whatever version they are at now.

All that computer power and technological advancement just to power a freakin' mouse.

Yes, computers are that pathetic.
Although the overhead of Windows operating systems has indeed grown vastly that's not really true. It's the graphical fluff that's costly in nowadays' computers. And that can be reduced very significantly. My Vista looks, runs and acts like a NT or 2000 machine. Just a matter of stripping away needless options and services.
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Old Oct 30th 2013, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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No, it was a suite with a word processor, a spreadsheet (1-2-3), charts, etc. which was a successor of 1-2-3. I got the chronology wrong.
Regardless, I recall working with a program at work in the mid-90's that was based on Symphony programming in Lotus 123.

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I'm not sure but I think Excel had a graphical interface before 1-2-3.
Well yeah. Excel debuted as a mouse-driven GUI-interface (and a clone of lotus with all the same commands, same layout, same functionality, etc).

Lotus was around for a decade before Excel came along.

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Although the overhead of Windows operating systems has indeed grown vastly that's not really true. It's the graphical fluff that's costly in nowadays' computers. And that can be reduced very significantly. My Vista looks, runs and acts like a NT or 2000 machine. Just a matter of stripping away needless options and services.
We tested this a few years ago and it was true. We used an old 486 machine vs a Pentium II if I recall correctly. It wasn't even close. The older machine booted up and loaded Lotus and was ready to roll long before Windows could boot and load Excel. Once they were both loaded, the 486 still won every race (re-indexing the same file with 100,000+ records was our baseline test). If you want to have a big laugh, do a comparison with Mac running Excel - now that is REALLY REALLY slow.
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Old Oct 30th 2013, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Regardless, I recall working with a program at work in the mid-90's that was based on Symphony programming in Lotus 123.


Well yeah. Excel debuted as a mouse-driven GUI-interface (and a clone of lotus with all the same commands, same layout, same functionality, etc).

Lotus was around for a decade before Excel came along.
Don't get me wrong, I loved 1-2-3. But Excel is one of Microsoft's better products (one of the few). At least it used to be, I haven't worked with any recent versions.

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We tested this a few years ago and it was true. We used an old 486 machine vs a Pentium II if I recall correctly. It wasn't even close. The older machine booted up and loaded Lotus and was ready to roll long before Windows could boot and load Excel. Once they were both loaded, the 486 still won every race (re-indexing the same file with 100,000+ records was our baseline test). If you want to have a big laugh, do a comparison with Mac running Excel - now that is REALLY REALLY slow.
That's not really a fair comparison (just playing advocatus diaboli here). The second machine will boot much slower but it also does a heck of a lot more. If you would put a non-graphical Linux on the second machine and use a shell script for the indexing of the file it would easily be a hundred times faster than the 486.
Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here. For number crunching that era was indeed far more convenient. But if one does mostly graphical stuff (advertising, Autocad, design, you name it) I'm sure one would prefer each new Windows version with all bells and whistles.
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Old Nov 4th 2013, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Don't get me wrong, I loved 1-2-3. But Excel is one of Microsoft's better products (one of the few). At least it used to be, I haven't worked with any recent versions.
I'd say that Excel is probably the ONLY non-shitty program Microsoft has ever produced.

But that doesn't mean it wasn't a clone of Lotus which was arguably a better program. Microsoft's marketing muscle accounts for the success of Excel, not its quality.

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That's not really a fair comparison (just playing advocatus diaboli here). The second machine will boot much slower but it also does a heck of a lot more. If you would put a non-graphical Linux on the second machine and use a shell script for the indexing of the file it would easily be a hundred times faster than the 486.
Very true. The test really only shows what shit Microsoft is.

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here. For number crunching that era was indeed far more convenient. But if one does mostly graphical stuff (advertising, Autocad, design, you name it) I'm sure one would prefer each new Windows version with all bells and whistles.
Sure, but the comparison I made was number-crunching - that's the real value of computer power in business. Pretty pictures is what people play with.

Indeed, it is often said that a report featuring a simple data chart is the most persuasive. But if you don't have a good argument or good data, that's when you want to use all the colorful graphic stuff (and Powerpoint especially) in order to buffer your marketing bullshit so no one notices the lack of actual data.
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Old Nov 5th 2013, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

Isn't the measure of success what sells?
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Old Nov 5th 2013, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Isn't the measure of success what sells?
Of success perhaps, but not of quality.
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Old Nov 5th 2013, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Of success perhaps, but not of quality.
I'm just trollin'.
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  #10  
Old Nov 5th 2013, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: The Internet Archive

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Isn't the measure of success what sells?
Only a market based economy where profits are worshipped.

Prior to the advent and domination of our market based economy system, market success meant absolutely nothing. Prestige and honor counted way higher.

Value is always relative.
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