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Old Aug 16th 2011, 06:02 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default City of Karl Marx

Marks, Saratovskaya oblast, Russia, a very interesting place

As the sign says, it was founded in 1765, but not, of course, named for the founder of Communism yet then

It was founded by Germans, German farmers, who were invited to settle in the Volga region by Empress Ekaterina II 'The Great' (in the West you call her Catherine), who herself was ethnically German, and named after her: Jekaterinenstadt.

Today, it has a population of about 40,000 people, majority are Volga Germans, and there are small Russian and Muslim (Tatar mostly) minorities.

Memorial to Ekaterina in the center of the town

Today, there is a movement to rename the city back into Jekaterinenstatd, or Yekaterininshtad as we Russians call it in our horrible broken German.

More pictures

Stella


Local United Russia office and Russo-German House


Alley of Heros

Monuments to local soldiers and officers who died for Russia.

Lenin memorial


Local administration building


They have very beautiful new street-signs

Unlike anywhere else in the country.

On the Volga river


Heritage building signs

"Building contrsucted in the beginning of XX Century. Architectural style - eclectic. Former home of Karle" Karle is some prominent family there, I understand.

"Building constructed in XIX Century. Architectural style - eclectic. Former home of merchant Kerner."
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 06:02 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

Streets




Marx memorial ("Marx's Head" as it is referred to by locals)


Orthodox church


Catholic church


Lutheran church


Mormon church


Mosque


Interesting people, Deutschrussen, as they sometimes refer to themselves

Unlike Germans in Germany/Europe, they really kept their roots, their culture. In the Stalin era, many of them were repressed, deported to Central Asia and such places. Now they are returning, rebuilding their communities. About 1,000,000 Russo-Germans today live in Russia. Some went to Germany in the 90s, and then returned: they could not find good work, and were treated like second-class citizens.
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 08:27 PM
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Michael Michael is offline
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

For me, the real 'home' of Karl Marx has to be England - or more specifically, the Great Reading Room of the British Library. He did spend a good part of his life there - his regular chair and desk are still there.



There is nothing about the USSR or the Soviet system or even Communism that is anything like what Marx actually wrote about. The history of the USSR seems to be all about Lenin, Stalin, socialism and authoritarianism.

As for the city, I think it should be more accurately associated with Catherine as she was apparently the founder and most certianly a German princess. She probably influenced Russian history more than Marx did.
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
For me, the real 'home' of Karl Marx has to be England - or more specifically, the Great Reading Room of the British Library. He did spend a good part of his life there - his regular chair and desk are still there.



There is nothing about the USSR or the Soviet system or even Communism that is anything like what Marx actually wrote about. The history of the USSR seems to be all about Lenin, Stalin, socialism and authoritarianism.

As for the city, I think it should be more accurately associated with Catherine as she was apparently the founder and most certianly a German princess. She probably influenced Russian history more than Marx did.
A. I know Soviet 'Communism' was nothing like teh real one. Same as Chinese 'Communism', North Korean 'Communism', or Cuban 'Communism'. But, of course, Marx's vision was and still is a Utopia, it can never be realised, due to many factors, including human nature. Marx wanted to get rid of money, he wanted people to work for free. He did not take into account something as simple and fundamental as human greed.

B. It is a good question who had more influence. Catherina did many things, for sure. But without Marx, there would not be Lenin and Bolsheviks, no Revolution, no Soviet period...
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Old Aug 17th 2011, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
A. I know Soviet 'Communism' was nothing like teh real one. Same as Chinese 'Communism', North Korean 'Communism', or Cuban 'Communism'. But, of course, Marx's vision was and still is a Utopia, it can never be realised, due to many factors, including human nature. Marx wanted to get rid of money, he wanted people to work for free. He did not take into account something as simple and fundamental as human greed.
Marx wanted a lot of things. Very few of them could be rationally supported with the arguments he constructed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
B. It is a good question who had more influence. Catherina did many things, for sure. But without Marx, there would not be Lenin and Bolsheviks, no Revolution, no Soviet period...
I disagree. Marx didn't invent socialism nor did he add anything at all to the theory of socialism - it existed long before he arrived on the scene.

And Leninism has virtually nothing in common with Marxism (except some rhetoric) and everything in common with traditional socialism - with the added heavy hand of authoritarianism that was Lenin's intellectual contribution.

And the Czarist regime was corrupt and incompetent and well deserving of being overthrown in 1917 regardless of the existence of Marx. Indeed, the original revolution was anti-socialist - Lenin was just an opportunist who murdered his way to the top of the chaos and claimed the revolution as his own.

Bottom line is that Marx had virtually ZERO influence over USSR history - other than the symbolic rhetoric that Lenin used to hide behind while he spilled Russian blood.
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Old Aug 17th 2011, 08:03 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Marx wanted a lot of things. Very few of them could be rationally supported with the arguments he constructed.


I disagree. Marx didn't invent socialism nor did he add anything at all to the theory of socialism - it existed long before he arrived on the scene.

And Leninism has virtually nothing in common with Marxism (except some rhetoric) and everything in common with traditional socialism - with the added heavy hand of authoritarianism that was Lenin's intellectual contribution.

And the Czarist regime was corrupt and incompetent and well deserving of being overthrown in 1917 regardless of the existence of Marx. Indeed, the original revolution was anti-socialist - Lenin was just an opportunist who murdered his way to the top of the chaos and claimed the revolution as his own.

Bottom line is that Marx had virtually ZERO influence over USSR history - other than the symbolic rhetoric that Lenin used to hide behind while he spilled Russian blood.

True.

Did you know, a very popular historic theory right now is that Lenin was paid in sacks of gold by Germany to start troubles in Russia, to take us out of World War I. Those historians in Russia who support this notion now started calling the 1917 Revolution the "German Revolution"...

Well, since this thread is about Germans, it does fit here well lol
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Old Aug 18th 2011, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: City of Karl Marx

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
True.

Did you know, a very popular historic theory right now is that Lenin was paid in sacks of gold by Germany to start troubles in Russia, to take us out of World War I. Those historians in Russia who support this notion now started calling the 1917 Revolution the "German Revolution"...

Well, since this thread is about Germans, it does fit here well lol
The logic of that argument fails since the only thing the Germans hated more than fighting a two-front war was Communism and the Jews that they believed were behind Communism.
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