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  #21  
Old Jul 22nd 2011, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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US foreign policy regarding Israel/Palestine hasn't changed. It was just reaffirmed by current administration; the situation being resolvable only through negotiations between Israel and Palestine.
That is indeed US policy, but it is a farce that has the effect of ensuring that no negotiations can or will take place.

Bottom line is, as every rational observer has noted, that NOTHING can happen on the Israel-Palestine issue without US leadership. That's the position of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Ergo, when US steps back, that represents official US policy of supporting the status quo (which is exactly what Israel wants and is so massively harmful to Middle East peace and US security).

US is complicit in the issue no matter what. US politicians cannot absolve themselves of this position that the US has worked so long and hard to be in.
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  #22  
Old Jul 22nd 2011, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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That is indeed US policy, but it is a farce that has the effect of ensuring that no negotiations can or will take place.

Bottom line is, as every rational observer has noted, that NOTHING can happen on the Israel-Palestine issue without US leadership. That's the position of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Ergo, when US steps back, that represents official US policy of supporting the status quo (which is exactly what Israel wants and is so massively harmful to Middle East peace and US security).

US is complicit in the issue no matter what. US politicians cannot absolve themselves of this position that the US has worked so long and hard to be in.
How can they change their position? They're politicians, many in key electoral states, dependent on defense industry support (industry money and union/military/local economy votes) to hold office. No sane politician is going to bite the hand(s) that feed it, that's just not the way the game works.
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  #23  
Old Jul 25th 2011, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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Which human rights group condemn Russian and China, while ignoring Israel?
MeMyselfandI, it would be nice to have an answer to this question.

Perhaps you could also tell us how the Russia/Chechen situation is different from the Israel/Palestine situation.
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  #24  
Old Jul 25th 2011, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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MeMyselfandI, it would be nice to have an answer to this question.

Perhaps you could also tell us how the Russia/Chechen situation is different from the Israel/Palestine situation.
Well, why does the US veto every UN Security Council resolution that condemns Israel? That is what I was talking about.

As for difference to Chechnya, there isn't much. I don't know if you've read, but 65% of Russians want Chechnya (and any other North Caucasian republics that may want it) cut out of the Federation, a secure border put around them, with a wall, if necessary, all thier people, except those completely absorbed into Russian culture, deported there, and let them be like that.
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Old Jul 26th 2011, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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Well, why does the US veto every UN Security Council resolution that condemns Israel? That is what I was talking about.

As for difference to Chechnya, there isn't much. I don't know if you've read, but 65% of Russians want Chechnya (and any other North Caucasian republics that may want it) cut out of the Federation, a secure border put around them, with a wall, if necessary, all thier people, except those completely absorbed into Russian culture, deported there, and let them be like that.
Okay, thank you. That answered my question.
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  #26  
Old Jul 26th 2011, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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Well, why does the US veto every UN Security Council resolution that condemns Israel?
Same reason the USSR veto'd every UN Security Council resolution that condemed Cuba.
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  #27  
Old Jul 28th 2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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That is indeed US policy, but it is a farce that has the effect of ensuring that no negotiations can or will take place.

Bottom line is, as every rational observer has noted, that NOTHING can happen on the Israel-Palestine issue without US leadership. That's the position of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Ergo, when US steps back, that represents official US policy of supporting the status quo (which is exactly what Israel wants and is so massively harmful to Middle East peace and US security).

US is complicit in the issue no matter what. US politicians cannot absolve themselves of this position that the US has worked so long and hard to be in.
The US is the reason Israel even exists as a nation. Its UN vote in 1946 gave Israel statehood. Its Security Council vetoes of all the Resolutions passed by the UN over the years to sanction Israel for its treatment of the Palestinians is the reason there is no Palestinian state today. And I don't see anything on the horizon to signal a change in that policy.

There is an interesting story about Harry Truman and why the US cast its deciding vote for Israeli statehood in 1946, which shows the human, accidental, vagueries on which history hinges. The US was on the fence about the vote: Great Britain, the US's great ally in WWII--which had just ended and which was very much still a part of everyone's consciousness--was through with the whole mess of Palestine. They were tired of fighting against the Irgun and the blockades and the masses of Zionist flooding Palestine after the atrocities of the camps. The US was leaning towards their ally's position against Israeli statehood.

But good old Harry Truman, in many respects a great president, had a friend, a Jewish, pro-Israel man who had been his partner when they were in the haberdashery business a long time before. And this friend used his influence to convince Truman. Largely because of this one man and their friendship, Truman made a personal decision to go against the tide and ordered the US vote FOR an Israeli state smack dab in the middle of the country of Palestine.

One little haberdasher--of all things--helped cause all that misery......
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  #28  
Old Aug 1st 2011, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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Originally Posted by nanacat View Post
The US is the reason Israel even exists as a nation. Its UN vote in 1946 gave Israel statehood. Its Security Council vetoes of all the Resolutions passed by the UN over the years to sanction Israel for its treatment of the Palestinians is the reason there is no Palestinian state today. And I don't see anything on the horizon to signal a change in that policy.

There is an interesting story about Harry Truman and why the US cast its deciding vote for Israeli statehood in 1946, which shows the human, accidental, vagueries on which history hinges. The US was on the fence about the vote: Great Britain, the US's great ally in WWII--which had just ended and which was very much still a part of everyone's consciousness--was through with the whole mess of Palestine. They were tired of fighting against the Irgun and the blockades and the masses of Zionist flooding Palestine after the atrocities of the camps. The US was leaning towards their ally's position against Israeli statehood.

But good old Harry Truman, in many respects a great president, had a friend, a Jewish, pro-Israel man who had been his partner when they were in the haberdashery business a long time before. And this friend used his influence to convince Truman. Largely because of this one man and their friendship, Truman made a personal decision to go against the tide and ordered the US vote FOR an Israeli state smack dab in the middle of the country of Palestine.

One little haberdasher--of all things--helped cause all that misery......
Yes, but Eisenhower and Kennedy kept Israel's 'promised land expansion' in check. It wasn't until the MIC teamed up with crooked as a snake Lyndon Johnson that US advanced military technology and military aid began flowing into Israel with virtually no limitations. The US was facing a loss of crude oil independence during Johnson's term (I still despise his presidency) and the US needed a ME gunslinger.
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  #29  
Old Aug 2nd 2011, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Why I... dislike... Zionists

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Yes, but Eisenhower and Kennedy kept Israel's 'promised land expansion' in check. It wasn't until the MIC teamed up with crooked as a snake Lyndon Johnson that US advanced military technology and military aid began flowing into Israel with virtually no limitations. The US was facing a loss of crude oil independence during Johnson's term (I still despise his presidency) and the US needed a ME gunslinger.
Actually, once again, JFK is the true author of that policy, not Johnson. I think Johnson gets a bad rap for being in office when JFK's policies come to light.

Basically, the US weapons export game is the flipside to the US oil addiction. By importing endless amounts of oil, that creates a massive deficit for US balance of payments. In order to financially counter this, the US needs to export something - and JFK decided that arms was the key industry to subsidize for maximum export opportunities. US has increased arms exports every year ever since.

Bottom line is that if the US government came up with any new and nasty policy during the 1960's, you can pretty much guarentee that JFK was the author/originator, even if the policy doesn't show up until several years after JFK was dead.

For example,JFK was also the author of the infamous "nuclear policy" change in 1965 that led directly to France's withdrawl from NATO.
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  #30  
Old Aug 2nd 2011, 08:02 PM
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I'll have to disagree with your opinion of JFK's position regarding Israel. His election was heavily supported by wealthy American Jews. When his doctrine became apparent it was decidedly pro-Arab (he stated neither Israel or Arab states could be considered true US allies [US intelligence had discovered Israeli nuclear ambitions]) and created chaos in congress as the Israeli lobby put every shred of pressure available to them on congressional members to publicly refute his position, which diminished US aid to Israel. That was small change during his short term as the Cold War overshadowed most all other geopolitical interests.

Johnson approved US military logistical planning, which supported Israel in the 1967 war against Arab states. Israel put everything it had into that blitzkrieg and had it not been for US airlifted supplies Israeli aircraft and armor would have run dry of fuel and munitions bunkers would have been empty.

I did not like JFK as a president, primarily for his stance on Vietnam of 'stopping the red tide'.
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