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  #51  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
more religious based on their allegiance to their ethnicity???
What on earth does that mean???
Try to break it down into idiot's language for me please.
Nanacat actually gave a very good example of this. As Palestinians have increased their nationalistic self-identity, they have become more devout Muslims.

Perhaps you have never experienced it, but many religious traditions are very much tied to national identity. Take the Virgin of Guadalupe, for instance. There is NOTHING IN THE WORLD more identifying of all things Mexico than the V of G.

Religion is part of culture. So when you identify with being part of a culture, it is often tied to that culture's dominant religion.

When I first started identifying very specifically as a Latino, being Catholic was part of it, very much so. In fact, in many ways it still is. There are some things about being Catholic that don't die with religion.
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Like being Catholic and being from Ireland, which, at least before the EU, was 97% Catholic.
Yeah pretty much. Or even moreso, Irish Americans, I would guess.
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  #52  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Not a hard concept - just incorrect.

We're back where we started. Ethnicity is ethnicity, and religion doesn't change that.
ok nick.
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  #53  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

Yes, religion and sport can be part of culture.

But a Brazilian who doesn't like football is still Brazilian.
And an Arab who isn't a Muslim is still an Arab.
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  #54  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post
Yes, religion and sport can be part of culture.

But a Brazilian who doesn't like football is still Brazilian.
And an Arab who isn't a Muslim is still an Arab.
You are either intentionally obtuse, or intentionally contrary.
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  #55  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 08:18 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Can you give me an example. I'm very surprised by that statement.
Me, my people, Pomors. Our Old Way Orthodox Christian faith is what defines us as a separate people from ethnic Russians. Well, at least, it is one of the things that do so. There is also a very different culture and such. But religion definitely. After all, they used to persecute us for our faith, which just made us more determined to preserve it in spite of them


Our faith determines how we live our lives, very much so, even for me, even far away from Pomorie, in Moscow, even married to a Muslim woman, I still make certain choices in life based on my people's religion. There are Old way Orthodox Christians who are not Pomors (because Pomors are only those who live near the North Sea), but there are no Pomors who do not worship the Old Way.

Last edited by MeMyselfAndI; Jun 20th 2011 at 08:21 PM.
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  #56  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Me, my people, Pomors. Our Old Way Orthodox Christian faith is what defines us as a separate people from ethnic Russians. Well, at least, it is one of the things that do so. There is also a very different culture and such. But religion definitely. After all, they used to persecute us for our faith, which just made us more determined to preserve it in spite of them
Are you referring the 'pogrom' against the 'Old Believers' initiated by Peter the Great? Are you 'religious refugees' from that?

Is that religious battle still simmering?
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  #57  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Originally Posted by NickKIELCEPoland View Post

Can you please give me some examples of a modern ethnic group where to be a good member, you have to adhere to a specific religion?

Arabs, no (we've established that).
No, not necessarily Arabs as a whole; the Arab world is very large. But as I mentioned in my post, Palestinians today, in order to be good Palestinians, have to be Muslim--and devout Muslims, at that.
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  #58  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Can you please give me some examples of a modern ethnic group where to be a good member, you have to adhere to a specific religion?

Arabs, no (we've established that).
Jews
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  #59  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 08:45 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

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Are you referring the 'pogrom' against the 'Old Believers' initiated by Peter the Great? Are you 'religious refugees' from that?

Is that religious battle still simmering?
Well, the official Church still makes attacks against us every once in awhile. It is mostly verbal slander now, in the media. But, a couple of our churches in Karelia have been vandalized and we believe the Moscow Church is behind that. And in Ekaterinburg, Cossacks acting on behalf of the Church seized a Old Way religious building, beating up the priest there and several believers who came to his aid. That is not connected with us, Pomors, directly, but that too is the Church acting against our faith.
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  #60  
Old Jun 20th 2011, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Real Islam and Real Muslims

Another good example are my Acadian relatives. The Acadian flag, in fact, has, as its dominating element, the Marion Star. It is essentially the French flag with a yellow star in the upper left corner to denote that St. Mary, mother of J.C. himself, is the patron saint of these oh-so-pious Catholics. To be Acadian and not Catholic is a black mark to many people here. It is in fact assumed that if you have an Acadian name, you are Catholic. I should clarify though that religious diversity here means that both Catholics and Protestants shop at the same stores
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