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  #21  
Old Oct 5th 2011, 07:29 PM
The_Dot The_Dot is offline
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Originally Posted by The Drunk Guy View Post
No. No, it isn't. It's the reason we're here and not USPOL.
I've been attacked pretty much since my first day here. It's pretty plain that Michael has kittle use for anyone who holds a different view. I got an extremely nasty, profane email from him based on a difference of opinion I expressed in a post.

Not sure what USPOL is, but I doubt it is much less friendly.
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  #22  
Old Oct 5th 2011, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Originally Posted by The_Dot View Post
I've been attacked pretty much since my first day here. It's pretty plain that Michael has kittle use for anyone who holds a different view. I got an extremely nasty, profane email from him based on a difference of opinion I expressed in a post.

Not sure what USPOL is, but I doubt it is much less friendly.
We have plenty of members that disagree with Michael. You just don't see them leaping to defend Fox News-style talking points so you assume we're all on his side. A difference of opinion is welcome so long as it doesn't mean we're supposed to swallow a heap of bullshit to tolerate it.

By the way, I agree with you here. Citizenship offers protections. If we wanted this man, we should have went in and attempted to apprehend him. It sets another dark precedent under the flag of 'terrorism', that vague and subjective label.
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  #23  
Old Oct 5th 2011, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

What "protections" does citizenship provide?
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  #24  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 06:52 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Assuming it was impractical (as it probably was) to send a team in to arrest Awlaki, how do you think the government should have proceeded?
What, exactly, were the charges against him? We don't know, do we? That's what due process is all about before convicting someone of a crime and executing them. It's generally Cheney and the neocons who love the James Bond and Oliver North types at the CIA, British MI, and the Israeli Mossad who murder for Big Brother, but maybe all Statists left and right will endorse anything the government does, maybe short of state-sanctioned mass genocide. Major utilitarian philodsophy professors have stated that the Shock and Awe on the totally blameless people of Iraq was a "just wa", and that US torture is justified, so why not just plain murder for a good cause?

Last edited by Tom Palven; Oct 6th 2011 at 06:59 AM.
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  #25  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 08:58 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

While Hillary Clinton has been paying lip service to getting rid of the Saleh regime, the Obama regime just approved new military aid to it.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=105356
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  #26  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
What, exactly, were the charges against him? We don't know, do we? That's what due process is all about before convicting someone of a crime and executing them. It's generally Cheney and the neocons who love the James Bond and Oliver North types at the CIA, British MI, and the Israeli Mossad who murder for Big Brother, but maybe all Statists left and right will endorse anything the government does, maybe short of state-sanctioned mass genocide. Major utilitarian philodsophy professors have stated that the Shock and Awe on the totally blameless people of Iraq was a "just wa", and that US torture is justified, so why not just plain murder for a good cause?
Well I think the specific grievances were that he planned a couple of botched bombings.
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  #27  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 12:20 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Well I think the specific grievances were that he planned a couple of botched bombings.
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of a process where the accusers accuse and present evidence, the accused gets to face them, and so on? How many federal bureaucrats have an 007-type license to kill? The President, the guys sitting there at Creech Air Force base in Nevada "piloting" drones, and who else? Who are the members of this special murderer caste that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Constitution, (not that the Constitution has any relevance anymore).
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  #28  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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Isn't there supposed to be some kind of a process where the accusers accuse and present evidence, the accused gets to face them, and so on?...
Indeed there is. But, again, assuming that process is not possible (because the accused is smart enough not to set foot anywhere where he can be arrested), who is the proposed alternative? Is it "do nothing"? Or is there some other alternative that would both stop the accused from being able to contribute to further assaults AND avoid execution without trial?
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  #29  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

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What "protections" does citizenship provide?
Indictment by a grand jury and a jury trial in this case. But there are others. You can read them here.
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  #30  
Old Oct 6th 2011, 02:57 PM
The_Dot The_Dot is offline
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Default Re: Obama admin executes two US citizens in Yeme

Here is some insight into how the administration decides who to kill:

Quote:
(Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79475C20111005
Kind of scary, IMHO. This isn't the way our justice system is supposed to work...
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