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  #11  
Old Jul 21st 2013, 08:48 PM
Americano Americano is offline
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Yes, with more taxes we could increase the funding of America's big growth industry, the Secret Police, and their highly paid employees at their subsidiaries like Booz Allen Hamilton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton
I'm happy without his rhetoric. If that changes I'd relocate.
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  #12  
Old Jul 22nd 2013, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Did he also voluntarily forego all services paid for by taxation?
I'd like to see some libertarians try this sometime.
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  #13  
Old Jul 22nd 2013, 10:01 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is online now
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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I'd like to see some libertarians try this sometime.
In the day of the Olde Tyme libertarians, it was said that "the difference between taxation and theft is that a thief doesn't come back to run your life." But, imho, there is absolutely no need to shoot oneself in the foot or become a martyr. Any time the government is giving some of your moeny back to you, in the form of food stamps, soical security, or whatever the powers-that-be are handing out, you'd be a fool not to take it, while all the while advocating inidvidual sovereingty, communism, or whatever the hell you want to advocate. I think that this is quite different from congresspeople buying limited edition, (commoners need not apply)government-guaranteed-not-to-lose-money bonds on, say, a cadium mining operation said to be valuable to national security, and claiming that they are doing it to be patriotic. It's one of the ways congressaholes quickly become multimillionaires.
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  #14  
Old Jul 22nd 2013, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
In the day of the Olde Tyme libertarians, it was said that "the difference between taxation and theft is that a thief doesn't come back to run your life." But, imho, there is absolutely no need to shoot oneself in the foot or become a martyr. Any time the government is giving some of your moeny back to you, in the form of food stamps, soical security, or whatever the powers-that-be are handing out, you'd be a fool not to take it, while all the while advocating inidvidual sovereingty, communism, or whatever the hell you want to advocate. I think that this is quite different from congresspeople buying limited edition, (commoners need not apply)government-guaranteed-not-to-lose-money bonds on, say, a cadium mining operation said to be valuable to national security, and claiming that they are doing it to be patriotic. It's one of the ways congressaholes quickly become multimillionaires.
No different than merchants and governments who supported Washington's army lining up up at the government favoritism trough after independence.
Some things never change, like commoners being commoners.
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  #15  
Old Jul 23rd 2013, 05:57 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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In the day of the Olde Tyme libertarians, it was said that "the difference between taxation and theft is that a thief doesn't come back to run your life."
It seems to me that the intellectual weight of libertarianism seems to exist entirely in cutsy folk sayings that add up to nothing more than emotional angst.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 01:17 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is online now
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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It seems to me that the intellectual weight of libertarianism seems to exist entirely in cutsy folk sayings that add up to nothing more than emotional angst.
It may seem that way to you, but I'd maintain that Austrian economics:

1. Takes human motivational factors, such as the desire to be creative or useful, and to make a difference, into account when counting the numbers of widgets that will be produced from their equations, unlike Paul Krugman and the Keynesian Control Freaks.

2. They don't regard Big Brother as real person with the ability to muliply loaves and fish, and Uncle Sam as the guy who could distribute those loaves and fish to everyone if greedy people didn't get in the way.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 06:40 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
It may seem that way to you, but I'd maintain that Austrian economics:

1. Takes human motivational factors, such as the desire to be creative or useful, and to make a difference, into account when counting the numbers of widgets that will be produced from their equations, unlike Paul Krugman and the Keynesian Control Freaks.
Keynesian economic theory has proven itself to be quite robust and functional for half a century. Austrian/Hayek economic theory cannot say the same - Hayek's theories have failed in almost every real world application.

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Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
2. They don't regard Big Brother as real person with the ability to muliply loaves and fish, and Uncle Sam as the guy who could distribute those loaves and fish to everyone if greedy people didn't get in the way.
I think your view of economic theory is way too simplistic.

Btw, do you have any idea how many top US finance officials (and neocons) have been Hayak disciples? Start with Alan Greenspan of course and everyone associated with him. That is to say, Hayak has been the ruling economic dogma for decades in Britain and USA (and look at the mess we are in).
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  #18  
Old Jul 25th 2013, 08:22 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is online now
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

Keynesianism was prevented from really blossoming until Nixon took the world's reserve currency, the US dollar, off the gold standard in 1971, turning it into funny money. Without the discipline of tangible standard, bankers and governments have become more and more creative, issuing all kinds of magical mystery bonds such as Detroit municipal bonds, and inventing derivative markets and various other kinds of ponzi schemes. It seems that in the West, Keynesianism has finally come to full fruition, creating economic stagnation from the US to Greece, while the Chinese, who never bought into Keynesian economics, have a robust economy.
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  #19  
Old Jul 25th 2013, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Keynesianism was prevented from really blossoming until Nixon took the world's reserve currency, the US dollar, off the gold standard in 1971, turning it into funny money. Without the discipline of tangible standard, bankers and governments have become more and more creative, issuing all kinds of magical mystery bonds such as Detroit municipal bonds, and inventing derivative markets and various other kinds of ponzi schemes. It seems that in the West, Keynesianism has finally come to full fruition, creating economic stagnation from the US to Greece, while the Chinese, who never bought into Keynesian economics, have a robust economy.
Bonds were around long before the US went off the gold standard and will always be the most efficient method of raising capital. If investors are stupid enough to subscribe to any investment vehicle, private or public, not serviced by a dedicated revenue stream, that's gambling, not investment.
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  #20  
Old Jul 25th 2013, 11:07 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is online now
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Default Re: The Most Dangerous Superstition

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Bonds were around long before the US went off the gold standard and will always be the most efficient method of raising capital. If investors are stupid enough to subscribe to any investment vehicle, private or public, not serviced by a dedicated revenue stream, that's gambling, not investment.
Are the taxpayers of Detroit considered to be a dedicated revenue stream? How about the taxpayers of Greece? Los Angeles? I've been paying my taxes, but I'm really not dedicated to it.
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