Victim trapped in 'coma' for was conscious

[dilettante]

Wow. I don't know about you guys, but I find this scenario to be absolutely terrifying:
Car crash victim trapped in 'coma' for 23 years was conscious (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/23/man-trapped-coma-23-years)
Paralysed patient could not move or communicate with doctors until Belgian neurologist tested new brain scanner

For 23 years Rom Houben was trapped in his own body, unable to communicate with his doctors (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/doctors) or family. They presumed he was in a vegetative state following a near-fatal car crash in 1983.

But then doctors used a state-of-the-art scanning system on the brain of the martial arts enthusiast, which showed it was functioning almost normally.

"I had dreamed myself away," said Houben, now 46, whose real "state" was discovered three years ago and has just been made public by the doctor who rescued him.

Steven Laureys, a neurologist at the University of Liège in Belgium (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/belgium), has published a scientific paper saying Houben could be one of many falsely diagnosed coma cases around the world.

...

"I screamed, but there was nothing to hear," he said, via his keyboard.
Houben then suffered years of being effectively trapped in his own body as care personnel and doctors at the hospital in Zolder tried to communicate with him, but eventually gave up hope that he would ever come round.

...

[Lily]

Wow! That is terrifying and amazing all at the same time. The Glascow Coma Scale (GCS) is a routinely used tool for assessing level of conciousness. To think that... holy hell. That's just scary. It really makes me wonder about Terri Schiavo, now.

[dilettante]

Wow! That is terrifying and amazing all at the same time. The Glascow Coma Scale (GCS) is a routinely used tool for assessing level of conciousness. To think that... holy hell. That's just scary. It really makes me wonder about Terri Schiavo, now.

I think that an autopsy proved that Terri really was gone for good, but it does make one wonder if other people who were still conscious were assumed to be vegetative and allowed to die or (maybe worse) left 'trapped in their own bodies' for years when they might have been helped.

[Michael]

Wow. I don't know about you guys, but I find this scenario to be absolutely terrifying:

I'd consider it terrifying only to the one person the victim was depending upon to pull the plug.

That person is (conscientiously) guilty of committing torture and deserves to die a slow miserable death. :D

I don't know if that person exists or not though. If they do, they are going to drive themselves insane now, which is the next best thing I guess - since they now know the magnitude and severity of their (non) action.

Pulling the plug twenty years ago would have been the only respectable choice in my opinion.

If this guy actually gets out of bed, the doctors ought to get out of town fast.

[Lily]

I'm curious, now, about this "state-of-the-art scanner." There are real time MRIs that can map brain function. Known as fMRI or functional MRI, these scanners are used with computer programs to map cognition in different areas of the brain, but that technology is really not all that new. Is it just that these physicians decided to use advanced MRI technology rather that rely on the the standard GCS and EEG?

I understand this man chose life, even with very limited mobility and, of course, that's how it should be; however, I wonder what the implications will be for those who would not choose to live in such a state? Assisted suicide seems the only option for those people now, whereas before this information, the families in concert with the doctors made the choice.

All very interesting stuff.

In the case of Terri Schiavo, yes, I had forgotton about the autopsy results. Her brain was about half the weight of a normal brain and showed signicant damage. These findings were not consistent with any kind of normal congnitive functioning.

[Michael]

I understand this man chose life, even with very limited mobility and, of course, that's how it should be;
How can you say this man chose life? :eek:

Looks to me like he had no options on the table at all. He got stuck with the decisions the doctors made for him (stuck there in a hospital bed for 23 years while they poked and proded him like a guinea pig).

If that were me, or someone I was related to, I'd be itching for vengence and willing to die trying.

[andrewl]

The word Ouija board is starting to creep into this story...

According to Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34132340/ns/health-health_care/

"It was especially frustrating when my family needed me. I could not share in their sorrow."At least, that's what his hand typed out on a touch-screen keyboard — a hand that was being cradled by a therapist...

...The consequences of discovering a fully lucid person, trapped inside his own body, thinking and feeling and loving after 23 years are enormous. But reading about the Houben case, I'm starting to have doubts as to whether this can all possibly be true...

...The technique of having someone point your finger to a keyboard is called facilitated communication. Sadly, it has been shown time and again to be unreliable. There is something of the ouiji board about the whole thing.

Hmm... im definitely doubting this one. Imagine if he is just being used as a puppet and the diagnosis from the doctor is actually correct? In other words he is conscious, but literally paralyzed to do anything about the fact that he is being used like a wooden dummy?

Andrew

[Lily]

How can you say this man chose life? :eek:

Looks to me like he had no options on the table at all. He got stuck with the decisions the doctors made for him (stuck there in a hospital bed for 23 years while they poked and proded him like a guinea pig).

If that were me, or someone I was related to, I'd be itching for vengence and willing to die trying.

I meant after he woke up and was able to communicate. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

[drgoodtrips]

I don't think that this is going to be an issue much longer, personally. That is, within a few decades, I think we'll be able to interface directly enough with the brain that traditional modes of communication need not exist (talking, gesturing, even just blinking).

[Michael]

I don't think that this is going to be an issue much longer, personally. That is, within a few decades, I think we'll be able to interface directly enough with the brain that traditional modes of communication need not exist (talking, gesturing, even just blinking).

Actually, I think that might make the problem more complicated and troublesome rather than less.

In other words, abortion was never much of a political issue until techology arrived. Likewise with choosing sex of a fetus.

Medical technology tends to introduce whole new ethical issues where previously there was none.

[drgoodtrips]

Actually, I think that might make the problem more complicated and troublesome rather than less.

In other words, abortion was never much of a political issue until techology arrived. Likewise with choosing sex of a fetus.

Medical technology tends to introduce whole new ethical issues where previously there was none.

That's a good point. I was referring more specifically to the issue of confusing lack of brain activity with paralysis. However, what should be done upon the rendering of the 'verdict' will no doubt open up a political can of worms.

[Michael]

That's a good point. I was referring more specifically to the issue of confusing lack of brain activity with paralysis. However, what should be done upon the rendering of the 'verdict' will no doubt open up a political can of worms.

Yes, that's precisely my point. What if your new technology gizmo proves that the dude in the coma for 23 years is alive and fully conscious, but totally trapped in a non-functional body?

Having that information settles precisely nothing. People like me will still argue to pull the plug and religious types will still argue that life is sacred and must be preserved at all costs.

[Non Sequitur]

Having that information settles precisely nothing. People like me will still argue to pull the plug and religious types will still argue that life is sacred and must be preserved at all costs.

Well, not all religious types, just some with a certain theological disposition.