Cell Phones vs Landlines

[Lily]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+DECT+6.0+Expandable+Cordless+Phone+System+with+Di gital+Answering+System/9181075.p?id=1218047278901&skuId=9181075

Yes, for the first time in nearly seven years, I'm getting a land line. I have to buy a phone.

[Michael]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+DECT+6.0+Expandable+Cordless+Phone+System+with+Di gital+Answering+System/9181075.p?id=1218047278901&skuId=9181075

Yes, for the first time in nearly seven years, I'm getting a land line. I have to buy a phone.

Why would you have gotten rid of a pre-existing land line? I'm curious because landlines are generally very cheap (I pay slightly less than $25 per month including sales taxes for my home telephone service).

[Lily]

Why would you have gotten rid of a pre-existing land line? I'm curious because landlines are generally very cheap (I pay slightly less than $25 per month including sales taxes for my home telephone service).

When I built my home here in 2004, I didn't have any installed. I used my cell exclusively. The condo I'm buying has land lines already installed and Knowlogy offers a good package, so I'm signing up. So, I have to buy a phone.

[Donkey]

When I built my home here in 2004, I didn't have any installed. I used my cell exclusively. The condo I'm buying has land lines already installed and Knowlogy offers a good package, so I'm signing up. So, I have to buy a phone.
Why?

Just curious. I doubt I'll ever have a home land line again.

[drgoodtrips]

One principal motivation for a land line is that cell phones suck for critical communication. I use a landline for any important business calls that I have to make when I'm not at my office. I don't have to worry about poor reception, a dying battery, the phone OS crashing, etc. I also have redundancy - I talk on a cordless, but have a standard desk phone sitting on my desk so if something goes wrong with the cordless, I can pick up the desktop phone before full disconnect.

Generally, the more generalist you make a device, the more poorly it performs at dedicated tasks. In the case of cell phones, the more they're also MP3 players, internet connections, cameras, and video game machines, the poorer they are at being cellular phones.

[Michael]

Why?

Just curious. I doubt I'll ever have a home land line again.
Landlines are about half or a quarter the price of any cell phone pricing package.

And then there is the net - if you don't have cable, you need a telephone landline for DSL.

And landlines don't pose a theoretical risk of brain cancer either (that is totally denied by the cell phone companies and they spend a lot of money to make sure that any study that suggests otherwise gets buried/ignored).

[Donkey]

One principal motivation for a land line is that cell phones suck for critical communication. I use a landline for any important business calls that I have to make when I'm not at my office. I don't have to worry about poor reception, a dying battery, the phone OS crashing, etc. I also have redundancy - I talk on a cordless, but have a standard desk phone sitting on my desk so if something goes wrong with the cordless, I can pick up the desktop phone before full disconnect.

Generally, the more generalist you make a device, the more poorly it performs at dedicated tasks. In the case of cell phones, the more they're also MP3 players, internet connections, cameras, and video game machines, the poorer they are at being cellular phones.True... when I replace my phone, I'll be trying to keep it simple. Just a phone and a camera plz. Doesn't have to be a GOOD camera.

Landlines are about half or a quarter the price of any cell phone pricing package.

And then there is the net - if you don't have cable, you need a telephone landline for DSL.

And landlines don't pose a theoretical risk of brain cancer either (that is totally denied by the cell phone companies and they spend a lot of money to make sure that any study that suggests otherwise gets buried/ignored).
Fair enough. But if you already have a cellphone, and need it? I mean, I cannot do my job without my cellphone. Period.

[Michael]

Fair enough. But if you already have a cellphone, and need it? I mean, I cannot do my job without my cellphone. Period.
Its a matter of economic status I guess.

Everyone I know has both (with cell phone usually primarily for work reasons). The only people I know with only one are the ones without excess disposable income (generally people in their 20's!).

To me, a cell phone is a luxury/convenience/toy. The landline is a necessity or a staple.

Indeed, 911 is another reason - landline calls to 911 automatically produce the address/location - just knock the phone of the hook and dial 911 and say "help" and the fire department will show up in about three minutes. I don't think cell phones can automatically do that without some 3rd stage GPS being engaged.

[Donkey]

Its a matter of economic status I guess.

Everyone I know has both (with cell phone usually primarily for work reasons). The only people I know with only one are the ones without excess disposable income (generally people in their 20's!).

To me, a cell phone is a luxury/convenience/toy. The landline is a necessity or a staple.
Ah. To me it would be the other way around. And I would say that will be the trend for my generation growing up, and here on out.

(Offices will still keep landlines I imagine. At least for a while.)

[Donkey]

Indeed, 911 is another reason - landline calls to 911 automatically produce the address/location. I don't think cell phones can automatically do that.
They can, limitedly.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2009-08-17-cellphones_N.htm

I have faith in the ability of technological development to rise to meet this problem. Wireless phones are the future.

[Americano]

Ah. To me it would be the other way around. And I would say that will be the trend for my generation growing up, and here on out.

(Offices will still keep landlines I imagine. At least for a while.)

How was your job accomplished before cellphones?

[Michael]

Wireless phones are the future.

Yes, and the future of the USA is a security-state. Wireless is so easy to eavesdrop/steal/manipulate.

[Donkey]

How was your job accomplished before cellphones?
And email?

Inefficiently.

[Michael]

And email?

Inefficiently.

The arrogance of youth. :lol:

I don't perceive the advent of email and cell phones as adding much in the way of productivity in offices at all. In some respects yes, but in many respects absolutely not! Big productivity drops with the advent of these toys in my opinion.

The toys are very popular with the elites though. Cell phones allow people to spend lots of time on personal/social calls during work hours. In the past, this behavior would have been frowned upon because it could be monitored so easily. So now, I see people stopping production and spending an hour a day chit-chatting with their wives or children - because they can (because the bosses are doing it right in front of them).

Indeed, any switchboard operator/receptionist can tell you that 50% of the calls coming into the main landlines at work are social/personal calls nowadays. This is radically different than in the past.

Hell, these new toys enable me to run this board while I'm at work. That's not very productive...

[Donkey]

The arrogance of youth. :lol:

I don't perceive the advent of email and cell phones as adding much in the way of productivity in offices at all. In some respects yes, but in many respects absolutely not! Big productivity drops with the advent of these toys in my opinion.

The toys are very popular with the elites though. Cell phones allow people to spend lots of time on personal/social calls during work hours. In the past, this behavior would have been frowned upon because it could be monitored so easily. So now, I see people stopping production and spending an hour a day chit-chatting with their wives or children - because they can (because the bosses are doing it right in front of them).

Indeed, any switchboard operator/receptionist can tell you that 50% of the calls coming into the main landlines at work are social/personal calls nowadays. This is radically different than in the past.

Hell, these new toys enable me to run this board while I'm at work. That's not very productive...

In my job I am running around a lot, and constantly sending information, documents, etc. etc. etc. across the state and country. Most of the work I do isn't done from the office. When I am in the office I am rarely doing anything that I can't also do from my couch.

*shrug*

All I'm saying, is that if I could only communicate in person, by mail or fax or being tied down to my office or my house, I would not be able to do the work that I do.

[The Drunk Guy]

All I'm saying, is that if I could only communicate in person, by mail or fax or being tied down to my office or my house, I would not be able to do the work that I do.
You mean you wouldn't be so productive, right? Unless you're a cell phone salesman (and you're not because you're not Indian), then of course you could do the work. It would just be done differently.

[Americano]

You mean you wouldn't be so productive, right? Unless you're a cell phone salesman (and you're not because you're not Indian), then of course you could do the work. It would just be done differently.

You mean...........planning and organization that include eliminating transportation costs of running around?

[drgoodtrips]

And email?

Inefficiently.

With email came the internet (from a commercial standpoint), which I would imagine is the single biggest drain on productivity in the history of commerce.

[Michael]

All I'm saying, is that if I could only communicate in person, by mail or fax or being tied down to my office or my house, I would not be able to do the work that I do.
One could use a landline telephone. Lots of people did that you know. ;)

I understand your point, but a large increase in efficiency for a small number of people has to be balanced against a potential decrease in efficiency for a much larger number.

That's the point I'm raising.

But even still, youth are known for being faddish. I remember twenty years ago every young person would have said they couldn't live without their electronic pager or sony walkman. Now young kids say "what's that thing?" :shrug:

[Donkey]

Can I suggest that this topic be split from the ctrl + v thread?

I don't think that cellphone/email is a fad of the youth. Sure I'm young, but at a meeting I was at yesterday, the only thing all of the old people had in common was the ubiquitous blackberry.

[Michael]

Can I suggest that this topic be split from the ctrl + v thread?
Done! :)

[Donkey]

I think my original point in this thread, rather than saying that we shouldn't have landlines, was saying that for many of us, a landline would be redundant.

My generation is a constantly connected society: just look at facebook, texting, cellphones in general, etc. At what point does that stop being luxury and start being culture?

[Michael]

I think my original point in this thread, rather than saying that we shouldn't have landlines, was saying that for many of us, a landline would be redundant.

My generation is a constantly connected society: just look at facebook, texting, cellphones in general, etc. At what point does that stop being luxury and start being culture?
When it passes from being a fad into a fact.

I don't think it has done that yet. I don't know if it will actually do that or not.

Fads tend to look the same as trends when you are close to them. The distinction can only be seen in the long run.

[partofme]

The only reason I have a land line is that I have to transmit data from my work computer that way.

[drgoodtrips]

I think my original point in this thread, rather than saying that we shouldn't have landlines, was saying that for many of us, a landline would be redundant.

My generation is a constantly connected society: just look at facebook, texting, cellphones in general, etc. At what point does that stop being luxury and start being culture?

I think it already has. The days of the landline are numbered, but not so much because it's a good idea. Landlines, from an infrastructure perspective, are not scalable. They only make business sense if the preponderance of homes in an area have them. As fewer people use them, the companies will have to start looking at cutting the service from those who want them and those who don't alike.

(At that point, I wonder if they might be nationalized ala the postal service, which has a similar business structure/model)

[Americano]

I think my original point in this thread, rather than saying that we shouldn't have landlines, was saying that for many of us, a landline would be redundant.

My generation is a constantly connected society: just look at facebook, texting, cellphones in general, etc. At what point does that stop being luxury and start being culture?

When it completely overcomes productive work?

Don't misunderstand me, anyone with travel as part of their profession requires the latest technology for communication purposes. Most senior people I know still in the business community guard their business cell numbers as closely as the company treasury and don't use them for personal calls, sending or receiving. They don't want personal calls, that costs them time which is money. And screening calls is also a waste of time.

There's a time and place for personal business yet the constantly connected society has problems distinguishing between the two as their personal lives are so intermingled with their professional endeavors due to their means of communication. I'm old enough to remember when personal calls on business lines for other than emergency were considered grounds for termination (shocking, huh?). I also remember IT people blocking early Internet access on company work stations that didn't require net access after time study people had heart attacks upon discovering the amount of time even clerks were using it. And there wasn't much there then other than a curiosity factor.

I don't have any answers. If the constantly connected society can't learn to distinguish between personal and professional time it'll show up in performance levels and ultimately production. Both masters can't be effectively served in a simultaneous manner. But I do think that necessity isn't yet clear to many junior people.

[Donkey]

Well, the market will balance, won't it. ;) We'll become more productive for demand.

I don't know the answer either, but, one thing to think about is the expansion of work outside of work. I am available to my boss on the phone at 11:00pm. Depending on what it is, I don't always pick up, but it's never really not ok to call.

[Americano]

Well, the market will balance, won't it. ;) We'll become more productive for demand.

I don't know the answer either, but, one thing to think about is the expansion of work outside of work. I am available to my boss on the phone at 11:00pm. Depending on what it is, I don't always pick up, but it's never really not ok to call.

If your boss needs you at 11PM for other than an emergency I'd think he has a time management problem. I never found mixing business with pleasure capable of doing justice to either. But that's just me. And most of the what I considered responsible people I interacted with. Including the ladies.

[Donkey]

If your boss needs you at 11PM for other than an emergency I'd think he has a time management problem. I never found mixing business with pleasure capable of doing justice to either. But that's just me. And most of the what I considered responsible people I interacted with. Including the ladies.
Well, I do an unusual kind of work, I suppose.

I mean, I don't often talk to her that late at night, but the latest I've been on the phone with her is about midnight.

[Americano]

Well, I do an unusual kind of work, I suppose.

I mean, I don't often talk to her that late at night, but the latest I've been on the phone with her is about midnight.

Sounds like she has a lot of irons in the fire and limited resources. She'll do well with that level of concentration and effort. She could also be looking at you for management. Unless you're telling me she's hot and you're always available.

[Donkey]

Sounds like she has a lot of irons in the fire and limited resources. She'll do well with that level of concentration and effort. She could also be looking at you for management. Unless you're telling me she's hot and you're always available.
Well, we're a two-person staff advocacy organization... sooooo....

[Lily]

Why?

Just curious. I doubt I'll ever have a home land line again.

For some reason, my cell doesn't get very good reception in that condo.

[Donkey]

For some reason, my cell doesn't get very good reception in that condo.
Ooooh.

That blows.

[Lily]

Ooooh.

That blows.

Yeah, it does. Plus, I'm always using the speaker or a headset on my cell. I very rarely hold it up to my head, and honestly, this new cell phone has a crappy speaker. In fact, this new cell is crappier in many ways. The land line phone is cheap, so I'll just cut back my minutes on the cell.

[Michael]

For some reason, my cell doesn't get very good reception in that condo.

Not uncommon. Have to go out on my balcony to make a cell phone call at my place.

[Americano]

Not uncommon. Have to go out on my balcony to make a cell phone call at my place.

Gotta be an important call to do that during Toronto winters.

[Donkey]

Not uncommon. Have to go out on my balcony to make a cell phone call at my place.
Not uncommon, but increasingly so.

[Americano]

Appropriate for this thread.....

[Lily]

Not uncommon. Have to go out on my balcony to make a cell phone call at my place.


I'd have to put on clothes.

Nah.

[Michael]

Getting back to Donkey's generational argument, I'd counter that by saying that it is just as likely (possible) that ten years from now, the worm turns back again, and the next generation of teenagers avoids the 'connected' lifestyle 24/7.

In that respect, 24/7 communications becomes a 'fad' of your particular generation (or age cohort).

Indeed, teen/youth culture tends to adopt things specifically to be different than their elders. If their elders are into the 24/7 connected lifestyle, they just might choose to reject that just to be different. That's what generations of youth have been doing for a long time now.

I'm not saying that cell phones or the internet are just a fad here - far from it. I'm talking about people's attitudes towards communications connectedness may be faddish.

My generation (Gen-X) tends to be skeptical of everything. :D

[Donkey]

It is possible that we unplug a bit in future generations, or even that mine does. But I don't think it will be wholesale. Cellphones are here to stay. Facebook might not be. imho.

[Zarquon]

In India (and the rest of the developing world) more people have access to cellphones than they to t.v., radio, newspapers, and the internet combined.
So, outside the West, I think the use of cellphones for mass-mobilisation, banking, commerce, and even voting can only grow. In many respects this is already happening.
Social networking doesn't appear as faddish to me, but that's the whole youth thing again. I used to be on MySpace and more forgettable websites, but Facebook appears to be here to stay.

[Americano]

In India (and the rest of the developing world) more people have access to cellphones than they to t.v., radio, newspapers, and the internet combined.
So, outside the West, I think the use of cellphones for mass-mobilisation, banking, commerce, and even voting can only grow. In many respects this is already happening.
Social networking doesn't appear as faddish to me, but that's the whole youth thing again. I used to be on MySpace and more forgettable websites, but Facebook appears to be here to stay.

May I ask what basic cellphone service costs in India (monthly)? I'm curious as your country seems to offer modern technology at far more attractive prices than the US. This is the same pricing contrast I experienced in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan during the 1980s. I don't know if it's the faltering USD or lower costs for infrastructure such as cell towers.

[Donkey]

I'm also curious as to how cellphone contracts etc. work in India. It's very different in Latin America.

[Zarquon]

Well, theirs less of a contract system than a 'services' system in that you can get either a pre-paid or a post-paid connection (pay for what you use or a fixed monthly rental+Value-added services if any, respectively) from any provider on any handset, and though US-like same handset+provider packages exist, they're not popular.

Thanks to pro-active policies of the main regulator(liberalization of the industry, auctioning off most of the 2G spectrum, making 3G available, rational infrastructure policies) call rates here are some of the cheapest in the world($0.02/minute or less).
That's because in order to reach out to semi-urban and rural consumers(the majority of the population), the telecom companies have to offer(and constantly lower) competitive prices and services, and due to the economies of scale(sheer volume of subscribers), they still end up earning a hefty profit.
And even after 488 million existing users, theirs still plenty(300 million at least) of people left without phones for this explosive growth to continue.
Number Portability facility and 3G spectrum have just been launched here.
The preferred handset maker is Nokia, and the preferred provider is Airtel.

Also, read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_in_India

The main reason for such progress in the developing world is that it didn't have much infrastructure to begin with, and is developing it now, and the potentially large consumer markets due to high populations.

[Lily]

If I understand correctly, the U.S. has relatively lousy cell phone coverage when compared with say, Europe. Why is that? My new condo has horrible reception, but truth be told, it's not that great where I live now, either. It's bearable, but not great.

[Donkey]

If I understand correctly, the U.S. has relatively lousy cell phone coverage when compared with say, Europe. Why is that? My new condo has horrible reception, but truth be told, it's not that great where I live now, either. It's bearable, but not great.
I don't know, but it's only a matter of time until cellphones work EVERYWHERE.

In the 5 years since I've had my phone, there are spots taht I could not use it at all, to where I have more bars than I need.

[Greendruid]

I don't know, but it's only a matter of time until cellphones work EVERYWHERE.

In the 5 years since I've had my phone, there are spots taht I could not use it at all, to where I have more bars than I need.

You're forgetting the vast stretches of everywhere that include very few people. What satellite/cell phone company is going to front the cost of maintaining connectivity for a very few sporadic visitors to a remote mountain location, say on an outstretched peninsula somewhere in the north of Cape Breton Island? I will take the position that this will likely NEVER occur because it's just not feasible or desired to occur. The only scenario I can see this occurring in is as a side-effect to something else. There are MANY places in Canada outside of the 90% population density areas that have 0 cell-phone capability. Some of these are even geologic/botanical/geographic barriers.

[Donkey]

You're forgetting the vast stretches of everywhere that include very few people. What satellite/cell phone company is going to front the cost of maintaining connectivity for a very few sporadic visitors to a remote mountain location, say on an outstretched peninsula somewhere in the north of Cape Breton Island? I will take the position that this will likely NEVER occur because it's just not feasible or desired to occur. The only scenario I can see this occurring in is as a side-effect to something else. There are MANY places in Canada outside of the 90% population density areas that have 0 cell-phone capability. Some of these are even geologic/botanical/geographic barriers.
Well satellite phones work everywhere don't they? Anywhere they can get in touch with a satellite? Like a Garmin GPS?

Anyway, when I make statements like that, I tend to be thinking long term.