Detainee Abuse Photos

[Michael]

There seems to be quite the controversy brewing in Washington over the promised release of these controversial 'detainee abuse' photos.

Seems like the Obama administration is trying to walk back their promise on this issue (using rather duplicitious means to do it).

Do you think these photos ought to be released? Or do you support the Obama Administration's efforts to prevent their release by whatever means available?

[dilettante]

Do you think these photos ought to be released? Or do you support the Obama Administration's efforts to prevent their release by whatever means available?

"by whatever means available"?
What if I don't think the photos ought to be released, but I'm not willing to subscribe to so ominous sounding a clause as "by whatever means available," which sounds suspiciously like "by any means necessary"?

[Michael]

"by whatever means available"?
What if I don't think the photos ought to be released, but I'm not willing to subscribe to so ominous sounding a clause as "by whatever means available," which sounds suspiciously like "by any means necessary"?
I used the phrase in reference to 'alleged' Obama Administration attempts to have the FOI arbitrarily suspended for those particular items. Alternatively, they are seeking to give the WH arbitrary power to quash FOI requests they don't like.

In both cases, backdoor and arbitrary methods are being being sought out for usage for the goal of blocking the release.

As such, it appears they will likely try additional arbitrary methods of blocking the release if the first two methods fail to achieve the goal.

[dilettante]

I used the phrase in reference to 'alleged' Obama Administration attempts to have the FOI arbitrarily suspended for those particular items. Alternatively, they are seeking to give the WH arbitrary power to quash FOI requests they don't like.

In both cases, backdoor and arbitrary methods are being being sought out for usage for the goal of blocking the release.

As such, it appears they will likely try additional arbitrary methods of blocking the release if the first two methods fail to achieve the goal.

I suppose I just wasn't sure whether the poll question was really about whether the photos should be released or about the particular methods being used to prevent their release.

[Margot]

I say yes, but I don't like to.

These are photos of people being tortured and abused and subjected to some of the most inhuman and dehumanizing acts under the sun, and that appeals to the same voyeurism that sends people out to watch real-life decapitations on the internet. Or to seek out terrible car wrecks, or to live off of footage of airplanes going down.

People who do feed off of this will feed off of this (a la Stanford Prison Experiment), and those who weren't expecting it "to be quite so bad" will be rather disturbed. And the people actually in the photos, the humans who were tortured, well, lets add one more abuse.

But as icky as I know people can be, as bad as I think the negative side of releasing those photos would be, I think that they should and will come out.

[Michael]

I suppose I just wasn't sure whether the poll question was really about whether the photos should be released or about the particular methods being used to prevent their release.
To be honest, I couldn't care less if the photos are released or not.

What bothers me is the Obama Administration playing "Bush-like games" to dodge the law on an arbitrary or ad hoc basis.

[The Drunk Guy]

I say yes, but I don't like to.

These are photos of people being tortured and abused and subjected to some of the most inhuman and dehumanizing acts under the sun, and that appeals to the same voyeurism that sends people out to watch real-life decapitations on the internet. Or to seek out terrible car wrecks, or to live off of footage of airplanes going down.

People who do feed off of this will feed off of this (a la Stanford Prison Experiment), and those who weren't expecting it "to be quite so bad" will be rather disturbed. And the people actually in the photos, the humans who were tortured, well, lets add one more abuse.

But as icky as I know people can be, as bad as I think the negative side of releasing those photos would be, I think that they should and will come out.
I think they should not be released for the very reasons you have outlined. The torture was enough abuse. Using them to shock people into thinking torture is bad is the same tactic the Texan nutjobs are using with abortion. It's a dirty trick with low-brow intentions.

However, I think that the pictures should be allowed as evidence in every trial that comes out of the Bay. Anything they said should not and cannot be used against them.

[Evangeline]

Senators Lindsay Graham and Joe Lieberman are threatening to shut down the government and filibuster every single thing until their amendment passes that says no torture photos shall be released that were taken from 2002 to 2009.


It's in the war spending bill. And they are going to filibuster it if their provision is removed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/09/lawmakers-feud-legislation-banning-release-torture-photos/

I voted I don't know because on one hand, I want transparency and truth. On the other hand, I don't want to fan the flames of terrorism. So I don't know.

[Michael]

Senators Lindsay Graham and Joe Lieberman are threatening to shut down the government and filibuster every single thing until their amendment passes that says no torture photos shall be released that were taken from 2002 to 2009.


It's in the war spending bill. And they are going to filibuster it if their provision is removed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/09/lawmakers-feud-legislation-banning-release-torture-photos/

I voted I don't know because on one hand, I want transparency and truth. On the other hand, I don't want to fan the flames of terrorism. So I don't know.
I loath Joe Lieberman. I nearly died when Gore picked him in 2000. It was the first of many really bad decisions Gore made in 2000 that cost him the Presidency.

My opinion of Lieberman has only gone downhill ever since. Gore I can forgive for making mistakes.

Like I said, I don't care about the release of the photos - it bothers me to see the actions to legally hide them.

[Michael]

CIA Urges Judge To Keep Bush-Era Documents Sealed
Al-Qaeda Could Use Contents, Agency Says


By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 9, 2009

The Obama administration objected yesterday to the release of certain Bush-era documents that detail the videotaped interrogations of CIA detainees at secret prisons, arguing to a federal judge that doing so would endanger national security and benefit al-Qaeda's recruitment efforts.

Source-WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/08/AR2009060804117.html?hpid=topnews)

But of course, ongoing airstrikes against civilians, or the US invasion of Iraq didn't benefit al-Qaeda's recruitment efforts... :rolleyes:

This is either a) duplicity, b) mendacity, c) hypocrisy and/or d) cognitive dissonance. None of these are admirable motives.

[Sucre]

I answered "No" without knowing the details of the story.

Why ?

It just seems to me that if I were to be abused I wouldn't like that a photo of my humilation be released. It would be a torture on top of the original torture.

I would therefore say, release a few - for the sake of information - but only if the people appearing on the photo agree. To release all of them without precaution is just ... crual.

[Michael]

I answered "No" without knowing the details of the story.

Why ?

It just seems to me that if I were to be abused I wouldn't like that a photo of my humilation be released. It would be a torture on top of the original torture.

I would therefore say, release a few - for the sake of information - but only if the people appearing on the photo agree. To release all of them without precaution is just ... crual.
They have already stated that if the photos are to be released, they would be 'redacted' meaning no people will be personally identifiable (neither perpetrator nor victim).

[Sucre]

They have already stated that if the photos are to be released, they would be 'redacted' meaning no people will be personally identifiable (neither perpetrator nor victim).
As said, I hadn't chcked the details.

I would still ask the victims though. It suffices they recognise themselves.

[dilettante]

As said, I hadn't chcked the details.

I would still ask the victims though. It suffices they recognise themselves.

That's an interesting facet of this debate I don't think I've heard anyone else address. I wonder if there's been any attempt to get the opinions of those being tortured in the photos.