Mahon Reprt-Ireland

[Leprechaun]

It's a tad late but I'll post it anyway seeing how I only just joined this forum. Some of you may have heard of the Mahon report released in Ireland recently which documents decades of child abuse perpetrated by religious orders in Ireland. This video from a news/discussion programme says more than the articles did (as many underplayed it).
http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=9205&locID=1.65.169&date=2009-05-20&date_mode=&page=2&show_cal=&newspanel=&showspanel=&web_only=&full_episodes=
I wouldn't ask you to watch all of it but it is worth a look, particularly the victims' accounts. (There are more programmes of his devoted to it)
What do youse think of this? It is a huge disgrace.

[Michael]

It's a tad late but I'll post it anyway seeing how I only just joined this forum. Some of you may have heard of the Mahon report released in Ireland recently which documents decades of child abuse perpetrated by religious orders in Ireland. This video from a news/discussion programme says more than the articles did (as many underplayed it).
http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=9205&locID=1.65.169&date=2009-05-20&date_mode=&page=2&show_cal=&newspanel=&showspanel=&web_only=&full_episodes=
I wouldn't ask you to watch all of it but it is worth a look, particularly the victims' accounts. (There are more programmes of his devoted to it)
What do youse think of this? It is a huge disgrace.
Yes, truly horrific stuff. The testimony of the woman at the end was brutal. :(

Unfortunately, this is just another chapter in a saga I've been reading about for years here in Canada. Both Quebec and Newfoundland have already gone through similar 'systemic' abuse scandals involving the Roman Catholic Church running residential schools and orphanages.

Same thing also with our native peoples where the Canadian government removed native kids from their homes and sent them to residential schools to learn English and 'civilized' behavior. This began back in the early 1900s and continued right up until the 60s and 70s. These schools were often run by the Anglican or the Catholic Churches - or the government itself. Same sad tale of horrific physical and sexual abuse of children in the care of the state, same sad tale of endless bureaucratic denial, same sad tale of professional denial - and the same sad tale of victims suffering longterm psychological disorders because of it.

My only suprise here is that Ireland has taken so long for the story to come open. Like I said, I've been reading about this topic here in Canada for a long time already. Our federal government just issued a formal apology and a huge financial settlement to a large number of native peoples specifically for the abuse suffered in the Residential Schools system. The Churches have also both made large settlements with victims groups (after years long court battles in some cases). Ireland is just starting this process? :eek:

[Dominick]

I haven't watched the video and I might not since I don't like videos as information carriers, they're too slow in transferring information, but I don't really need to having grown up in a still vehemently Catholic part of a then slowly secularizing country.
This kind of abuse is endemic in all Catholic regions. I don't think there's anything inherent in Catholic doctrine that might cause this. But what is specific to Catholicism and is potentially causally related to the issue is the enforced celibacy of their staff. By lack of other potential causes I'm pretty sure this is the one. The big lesson here is that curtailing sexuality is always a disaster waiting to happen in any context.

[Michael]

...The big lesson here is that curtailing sexuality is always a disaster waiting to happen in any context.
Yes, I'm inclined to agree with this, but I don't think it is sufficient to address the entirety of this phenomenum.

For example, many of the Native Residential schools in Canada that had the same horrific pattern of physical/sexual abuse and the same subsequent coverups were run by the government or by the Anglican Church - neither of which had celibacy as a component.

Obviously there is something deeper at work here to enable these kinds of policies to stand for so long.

[SMadsen]

I watched the video and am surprised to learn that the emphasis was not so much on the sexual abuse that is usually what is referred to in the news media (at least in my parts of the woods) but that the focus was on physical and psychological abuse in general. It seems to convey what appears to be a total lack of sense of human worth.

It's nothing, really, that can't be expected from ideologies of submission. I think this is also what governs the principle of coelibacy. So while coelibacy is just a symptom, the ideology is the actual diagnosis.

It doesn't matter how extreme the urge gets, no one abuses another - and lot less a child - unless something makes it acceptable. Justifiable. So while it may be said that coelibacy builds up urges that then may, or, as a rule unless other rules apply, may not, cause sexual abuse, I think the "other rules" that create such monstrosities have to do with the fundamental ideas of guilt and worthlessness until submission.

I view it as one of the pegs in my "religion is ultimate selfishness" board.

[Leprechaun]

It has been known for a long time that children were being abused but these were considered isolated cases by the media and so they were brushed under the carpet so to speak. What is most horrifying about this report is the scale. It confirms that not a single institution in Ireland meet the standards despite more than adequate funding. It also shows that in Ireland with a population of 3.5 million when this report started had the same number of children in care as the Uk which had a population of 55-60 million. For any one interesting you should look up the videos regarding the indemnity deal (they are on the same website and are on the same programme) or even any number of articles that were published. (I would have linked the articles but I felt the testimony was much more harrowing than any written text).
Here is the website of the report: http://www.childabusecommission.ie/

[Michael]

...It also shows that in Ireland with a population of 3.5 million when this report started had the same number of children in care as the Uk which had a population of 55-60 million.
This strikes me as a flag that something seriously is wrong and that Ireland has a problem with institutionalizing children!

On another note, it really freaks me out that the city I live in (Toronto), which sprawls across an area of about 40 km x 60 km but has the same population as the whole country of Ireland! :eek:

[Michael]

It has been known for a long time that children were being abused but these were considered isolated cases by the media and so they were brushed under the carpet so to speak.

Isn't it odd the way the media makes so many of these decisions for us? Or that they make such bloody bad decisions so consistently? :ummm:

[Leprechaun]

This strikes me as a flag that something seriously is wrong and that Ireland has a problem with institutionalizing children!

On another note, it really freaks me out that the city I live in (Toronto), which sprawls across an area of about 40 km x 60 km but has the same population as the whole country of Ireland! :eek:
That figure was from either the 60's 70's or 80's I imagine it is much lower now. Ireland did have a population of around 8 million ~1840 but the famine meant 1 million emigrated and 1 million died. Then the long periods of mass emigration lead to smaller and aging populations (lower population growth etc.) and in the 1950's we only had about 2.5 million people. The number has recovered though with economic successes in the 60's and more recently and the large number of immigrants bolsters it.

Isn't it odd the way the media makes so many of these decisions for us? Or that they make such bloody bad decisions so consistently? :ummm:Well in Ireland the print media is effectively owned by one man Tony O' Reilly and so the right-wing corporate view is always pushed.