Obama's Cairo speech

[Dominick]

Here's a annotated copy of the full text:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8082862.stm

I've yet to read it myself but I suppose there are already reactions ?

[Michael]

I'll make a quick guess and say the US talk radio and cable news guys are going ballistic and taking this as "proof" that Obama is actually a secret Muslim. :lol:

[Michael]

Okay, I've just read a half-dozen reviews (American sources) and all are 100% positive.

From my reading of the speech, I must say it is an amazing speech. I'd say this one is likely to be Obama's greatest speech. It makes some excellent arguments and faces up to every issue honestly - no dodging. That's impressive for a US President making a foreign speech.

In other words, I think Obama said exactly the right things in exactly the right way.

Seems like its getting strong positive reviews in the Arab press as well... (more on that later over the next few days).

[Americano]

I tried to read through the annotated speech and failed. Are speech writers like code writers? They lock them up in tiny rooms with a PC, cases of Mountain Dew and slide pizzas under the door?

[Michael]

I tried to read through the annotated speech and failed. Are speech writers like code writers? They lock them up in tiny rooms with a PC, cases of Mountain Dew and slide pizzas under the door?
I thought the format the BBC used there in the link Dominick provided was pretty good. What bothers you about it?

I especially liked the way the BBC's own annotations were hidden so you could ignore them entirely. That strikes me as a good format. Most of the commentary is simplistic to the point of moronic so I tend to ignore it and didn't bother to open any more 'comment boxes' after the first two.

[partofme]

I actually wondered what they would say so on the way to taking one of my kids to day care I listened a bit to Glenn Beck who is the nuttiest of all and has the third most listened to show in America but had somebody else filling in and the guy was complaining that Obama is giving Muslims special attention but not people of other faiths. On The 700 Club which is hosted by Pat Robertson and comes on about a dozen different channels just in my area he was saying that it shows that Obama has some Muslim connections that he didn't talk about during the campaign. The usual stuff. Sadly these guys are taken seriously by many.

[Americano]

I thought the format the BBC used there in the link Dominick provided was pretty good. What bothers you about it?

Length. I have a short attention span for political speeches developed by no relation to reality. The Muslim world is going to judge Obama (the US) by actions, not words.

How that audience endured a 55-minute political speech is a testimony to either patience or masochism.

I especially liked the way the BBC's own annotations were hidden so you could ignore them entirely. That strikes me as a good format. Most of the commentary is simplistic to the point of moronic so I tend to ignore it and didn't bother to open any more 'comment boxes' after the first two.

[Dominick]

Well, I wouldn't call it historical but it's impressive nevertheless. Like Michael, I appreciate that he leaves no issue untouched and that he argues from reality and not from wishful thinking or ideology.
I'm pretty sure that a substantial part of the fear and paranoia in Muslim communities throughout the world that was instilled by the Bush doctrine will be assuaged. That alone might, nay, will, negatively influence the recruitment capabilities of the extremist factions.
A side effect of the speech might be that the European extreme right will look foolish now with their xenophobic and Islamophobic rhetoric. Whether that will have an effect on the upcoming elections will be difficult if not impossible to tell though.

I doubt the speech will have much effect on the actual extremists both in the States and in the Muslim community though. Their rhetoric will not change but their support base might suffer in scale.

[Dominick]

I tried to read through the annotated speech and failed. Are speech writers like code writers? They lock them up in tiny rooms with a PC, cases of Mountain Dew and slide pizzas under the door?
I didn't really have a problem with either the speech or the annotations. The latter I just skipped and the first is well structured. I could rewrite it in actual computer code but I seriously doubt you'd prefer it ;)
The annotations aren't actually analysis. They're just summarization of keypoints and a bit of guidance through the structure. Yes, even the BBC is affected by the infantilization of the media. Alas.

[Michael]

How that audience endured a 55-minute political speech is a testimony to either patience or masochism.
By historical standards, a 55 minute political speech is a short one.

Hitler's famous orations (for example) were often 4-6 hours in length.

US Presidential campaign speeches (before prime time tv) were often a couple hours or more.

Times change!

[Americano]

As I frequently email the White House with congratulations and critiques, I'm on their mailing list.

I just received a mailing from them with an embedded video of the complete speech.

edit: Here's the WH link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/NewBeginning/

[Americano]

By historical standards, a 55 minute political speech is a short one.

Hitler's famous orations (for example) were often 4-6 hours in length.

US Presidential campaign speeches (before prime time tv) were often a couple hours or more.

Times change!

When I was active in politics it was understood that crap was for the masses and few fundraisers had speakers doing more than 20-minutes or the crowd became restless.

[Michael]

When I was active in politics it was understood that crap was for the masses and few fundraisers had speakers doing more than 20-minutes or the crowd became restless.
20 minutes is the "business presentation rule".

No surprise that it enters politics at the 'fundraising' level. ;)

[andrewl]

Why the condemnation of violence as a tool or means to an end for palestine and not for israel... all while america relies on an escalation of violence in afghanistan and pakistan... i think the Muslim world will note this hypocrisy.

why a call for palestine to abandon violence and not israel?

Andrew

[Americano]

Why the condemnation of violence as a tool or means to an end for palestine and not for israel... all while america relies on an escalation of violence in afghanistan and pakistan... i think the Muslim world will note this hypocrisy.

why a call for palestine to abandon violence and not israel?

Andrew

Israel is the MIC's 'friend'. As I posted earlier, the Muslim world will judge Obama and the US by actions, not words.

[Michael]

Why the condemnation of violence as a tool or means to an end for palestine and not for israel... all while america relies on an escalation of violence in afghanistan and pakistan... i think the Muslim world will note this hypocrisy.

why a call for palestine to abandon violence and not israel?

Andrew
The target audience for the speech was Arabs and Muslims so he addressed those issues that the Arabs and Muslims have control over.

[Donkey]

Ugh. Liz Cheney is on the tv being stupid.

[partofme]

I'm going to watch The 700 Club in forty minutes. Between the speech and New Hampshire becoming the sixth state to allow gay marriage I'm sure Pat Robertson will be in a great mood. :rofl:

Every time something happens to outrage right wingers I can't help myself but keep up with their media the next day.

[andrewl]

The target audience for the speech was Arabs and Muslims so he addressed those issues that the Arabs and Muslims have control over.

He also addressed the settlements, but arabs and muslims have no control over those...

Andrew

[Michael]

He also addressed the settlements, but arabs and muslims have no control over those...

Andrew
Regardless, I don't see that point as relevant to the quality or success of Obama's speech. That point strikes me as the same "Obama can do nothing right" mentality that the hard-right uses all the time.

And I can't see any political benefit to anyone for Obama to play Israel-bashing games in Cairo. That's just bad politics and serves no purpose but to pander to the anti-Israel faction (which is already plenty large enough in the Middle East and Cairo specifically).

Besides which, I think Obama and Hillary have already delivered enough 'shocks' to the US-Israeli relationship in the last few weeks.

[Michael]

Ugh. Liz Cheney is on the tv being stupid.

Isn't that last part redundant? :ummm:

[Michael]

Moreover, freedom in America is indivisible from the freedom to practice one's religion. That is why there is a mosque in every state of our union, and over 1,200 mosques within our borders. That is why the United States government has gone to court to protect the right of women and girls to wear the hijab, and to punish those who would deny it. (Applause.)

Gosh, I wonder how this is going over in Europe? :D

[andrewl]

Regardless, I don't see that point as relevant to the quality or success of Obama's speech. That point strikes me as the same "Obama can do nothing right" mentality that the hard-right uses all the time.

And I can't see any political benefit to anyone for Obama to play Israel-bashing games in Cairo. That's just bad politics and serves no purpose but to pander to the anti-Israel faction (which is already plenty large enough in the Middle East and Cairo specifically).

Oh, it was a good speech for the most part, i will hold off on saying it was a success though. I just believe that if one abandons violence categorically as a form of resistance they guarantee their own subjugation. To pretend otherwise ignores the real success of violence in the formation and independence of virtually any state in history.

Besides which, I think Obama and Hillary have already delivered enough 'shocks' to the US-Israeli relationship in the last few weeks. True. Although if Obama was not willing to ask both sides to abandon violence he should not have asked either side to do so.

Andrew

[Michael]

Although if Obama was not willing to ask both sides to abandon violence he should not have asked either side to do so.

Andrew
I disagree. I think that it takes a great person, a great culture and/or a great society to rise above the belicosity of daily violence. Obama is quite right to appeal to this.

And of the two cultures involved, I have no doubt which one is more likely to rise to the occasion. Such a speach to the Israelis would I think be a waste of time and effort - and not worth the political price in pettiness that will be the response.

Remember, it is the Israelis on the defensive here (despite the apparent success of their offensive position). Their longterm position is very weak and according to the principles of the Art of War (Sun Tzu), the Israelis are losing. Strong powers losing wars NEVER alter course until it is too late.

It is only the Arabs & Muslims that have the ability to change the dynamics. Thus, Obama addressed this. This is a compliment to the Arabs and Muslims that the Israelis will be too smug to pick up on.

[Dominick]

Gosh, I wonder how this is going over in Europe? :D
What's the problem ? :ummm:
There's tons of mosques around and the issues of the hajib and burqa are very differently approached from nation to nation and even within nations.

[andrewl]

I disagree. I think that it takes a great person, a great culture and/or a great society to rise above the belicosity of daily violence. Obama is quite right to appeal to this.

And of the two cultures involved, I have no doubt which one is more likely to rise to the occasion. Such a speach to the Israelis would I think be a waste of time and effort - and not worth the political price in pettiness that will be the response.

Remember, it is the Israelis on the defensive here (despite the apparent success of their offensive position). Their longterm position is very weak and according to the principles of the Art of War (Sun Tzu), the Israelis are losing. Strong powers losing wars NEVER alter course until it is too late.

It is only the Arabs & Muslims that have the ability to change the dynamics. Thus, Obama addressed this. This is a compliment to the Arabs and Muslims that the Israelis will be too smug to pick up on.

Insofar as american willingness to pressure Israel into the formation of a Palestinian state is tied to the abandonment of violence on the part of hamas than i can certainly see how this is in their interests.

Andrew

[Donkey]

Isn't that last part redundant? :ummm:
Apparently. I've never been much of a tv watcher, but my girlfriend watches a lot, so we were watching msnbc.

I put on something else though. I should probably keep my watching to a minimum however, because I am apparently one of those stereotype people who yells at the people on tv.

[drgoodtrips]

Apparently. I've never been much of a tv watcher, but my girlfriend watches a lot, so we were watching msnbc.

I put on something else though. I should probably keep my watching to a minimum however, because I am apparently one of those stereotype people who yells at the people on tv.

As long as it doesn't escalate to throwing lamps at people on TV, I'd say that people should be expected to put up with your raving.

[Michael]

What's the problem ? :ummm:
There's tons of mosques around and the issues of the hajib and burqa are very differently approached from nation to nation and even within nations.
It was the definition of 'freedom' that included the hajib/burka. That issue has been rather hot in certain parts of Europe lately - France in particular. It will be interesting to see if there is any subsequent movement on the issue there because of that.

[Michael]

One interesting comment I read today about Obama's speech (from Yglesias) was about how much this speech by Obama represents a significant change in political speeches. This isn't the first of course, Obama's racism or inuguration speech or even Bush's SOTU addresses showed this same pattern.

That is to say, the internet and YouTube makes the audiences for these types of speeches enormous. This is very different than 10-15 years ago, let alone 25 or 50 years ago when only those present in the room would see/hear the speech and the media would just report the 'highlights' of the speech, not the content.

Now nearly anyone who is interested can access a video of the speech itself very easily. This does seem like a new phenomena in the nature of political communications - actual mass audiences for mass political events.

[Americano]

One interesting comment I read today about Obama's speech (from Yglesias) was about how much this speech by Obama represents a significant change in political speeches. This isn't the first of course, Obama's racism or inuguration speech or even Bush's SOTU addresses showed this same pattern.

That is to say, the internet and YouTube makes the audiences for these types of speeches enormous. This is very different than 10-15 years ago, let alone 25 or 50 years ago when only those present in the room would see/hear the speech and the media would just report the 'highlights' of the speech, not the content.

Now nearly anyone who is interested can access a video of the speech itself very easily. This does seem like a new phenomena in the nature of political communications - actual mass audiences for mass political events.

Was increased communication between government and the populace not one of his minor campaign planks? Part of the 'every citizen having access to high-speed Internet'?

I was shocked to get a video link to his speech this AM, and it was slick. It stated we know you were most likely to be asleep due to the time change during this important policy speech but we wanted you to have access to a complete video (with polished text). Very impressive.

I think he's bright enough to understand he needs the public on his side during such a major economic dilemma and is bringing the Roosevelt Fireside Chat success story back into play with contemporary communications. Bravo for his people in making it work. After experiencing the last thug and his gang this apparent openness of current US administration on major foreign policy is refreshing.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

To think that some people actually criticized Obama for how he made speeches during the campaign calling him a rock star, etc. Betcha those morons are wishing they could speak half as well and be one tenth as influential as he is.

[The Drunk Guy]

Insofar as american willingness to pressure Israel into the formation of a Palestinian state is tied to the abandonment of violence on the part of hamas than i can certainly see how this is in their interests.

Andrew
At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. (Applause.) This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop. (Applause.)




And Israel must also live up to its obligation to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society. Just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be a critical part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress.
It's an offer: if Hamas quits ordering attacks on the settlements, then America will help put a stop to those settlements. If he were in Israel, it would be fair for him to say that if Israel quits using violence, America will help ensure Palestine stops using violence. As Michael said, it's all about target audience.

[The Drunk Guy]

Was increased communication between government and the populace not one of his minor campaign planks? Part of the 'every citizen having access to high-speed Internet'?

I was shocked to get a video link to his speech this AM, and it was slick. It stated we know you were most likely to be asleep due to the time change during this important policy speech but we wanted you to have access to a complete video (with polished text). Very impressive.

I think he's bright enough to understand he needs the public on his side during such a major economic dilemma and is bringing the Roosevelt Fireside Chat success story back into play with contemporary communications. Bravo for his people in making it work. After experiencing the last thug and his gang this apparent openness of current US administration on major foreign policy is refreshing.I am truly surprised at how transparent he is making his presidency. It makes me feel good. Whether I agree with him on every issue, I feel that he cares enough to explain his actions to the people, showing us the logic he chose and why. Pretty powerful stuff in this day and age.