What are you reading?

[dilettante]

Btw, if you are on a CS Lewis kick, have you read his sci-fi trilogy? Talk about fucking weird books. Out of the Silent Planet was pretty good and interesting, but Perelandra and That Hideous Strength... odd ducks.

I'm just starting that set. I read half of Out of the Silent Planet when I was in high school and never finished it. I'm hoping it goes better this time.

In general I find Lewis's non-fiction extremely enjoyable. Even when I don't agree with him, I appreciate his intellect, honesty and humility. And I agree with Non that The Great Divorce is simply awesome.

Nan, next to the quote button there is an "HQ" button. If you click it, it will turn orange, and show up when you go to reply later or quote another post.

Actally, I think that's "MQ" for "Multi-Quote". :)

[Donkey]

So it is! :lol:

[The Drunk Guy]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through A Clash of Kings, the second book of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I've read them before, but the first season of the television show just ended (so I skipped book one: A Game of Thrones) and book five is coming out in July.

Michael, I think I've discussed this before, but I highly recommend this series for you. The only drawback is that it's not finished (two more books planned after the new one) and he keeps taking longer and longer in between releases. As you know, I don't care for a lot of magic in my fantasy and Martin has created a very subtle world of magic with an incredibly deep political drama.

[Donkey]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through A Clash of Kings, the second book of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I've read them before, but the first season of the television show just ended (so I skipped book one: A Game of Thrones) and book five is coming out in July.

Michael, I think I've discussed this before, but I highly recommend this series for you. The only drawback is that it's not finished (two more books planned after the new one) and he keeps taking longer and longer in between releases. As you know, I don't care for a lot of magic in my fantasy and Martin has created a very subtle world of magic with an incredibly deep political drama.

I definitely need to get my hands on some of thems.

[dilettante]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through A Clash of Kings, the second book of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I've read them before, but the first season of the television show just ended (so I skipped book one: A Game of Thrones) and book five is coming out in July.

Michael, I think I've discussed this before, but I highly recommend this series for you. The only drawback is that it's not finished (two more books planned after the new one) and he keeps taking longer and longer in between releases. As you know, I don't care for a lot of magic in my fantasy and Martin has created a very subtle world of magic with an incredibly deep political drama.

I ponder taking up that series sometimes but never do. I'm always hesitant to start an unfinished series that's more than a straight trilogy. I always get the impression that the author is just going to keep stringing the story out until either (A) we all run out of money, or (B) he dies. Case in point: Robert Jordan.

I've also heard that Song of Ice and Fire is relatively dark and rough for a fantasy with lots of main characters being killed, raped or otherwise brutalized.

[Donkey]

I ponder taking up that series sometimes but never do. I'm always hesitant to start an unfinished series that's more than a straight trilogy. I always get the impression that the author is just going to keep stringing the story out until either (A) we all run out of money, or (B) he dies. Case in point: Robert Jordan.

I've also heard that Song of Ice and Fire is relatively dark and rough for a fantasy with lots of main characters being killed, raped or otherwise brutalized.

If I am not mistaken, this particular series has a definite end-point, it's just not written yet (much like Harry Potter was for the last decade).

[The Drunk Guy]

I ponder taking up that series sometimes but never do. I'm always hesitant to start an unfinished series that's more than a straight trilogy. I always get the impression that the author is just going to keep stringing the story out until either (A) we all run out of money, or (B) he dies. Case in point: Robert Jordan.

I've also heard that Song of Ice and Fire is relatively dark and rough for a fantasy with lots of main characters being killed, raped or otherwise brutalized.
I do worry about him kicking the bucket before it's finished, but, as Donkey said, he has it planned for just seven books total. I'm hoping he has a scare that pushes him to finish like Stephen King and The Dark Tower series. :angel:

And it is very, very dark. The books take hope and stomp it and crush it until its almost gone, but still a tiny, tiny diamond of hope remains, making it all the more special. :D

[drgoodtrips]

I ponder taking up that series sometimes but never do. I'm always hesitant to start an unfinished series that's more than a straight trilogy. I always get the impression that the author is just going to keep stringing the story out until either (A) we all run out of money, or (B) he dies. Case in point: Robert Jordan.

I've also heard that Song of Ice and Fire is relatively dark and rough for a fantasy with lots of main characters being killed, raped or otherwise brutalized.

Yeah... I've read the first book of Robert Jordan's series several times because I would read all the books and wait for the next one to come out. By the time it did, I couldn't really remember what was going on well enough to simply read it, so I'd re-read them from the start. After three or four iterations of this, I decided to wait for the series to be concluded, and we saw how that has turned out.

[dilettante]

Yeah... I've read the first book of Robert Jordan's series several times because I would read all the books and wait for the next one to come out. By the time it did, I couldn't really remember what was going on well enough to simply read it, so I'd re-read them from the start. After three or four iterations of this, I decided to wait for the series to be concluded, and we saw how that has turned out.

Yeah, I made it through the first four, at which point I started to notice that in every book the "last battle" was almost but still not quite here and that the main plot line wasn't really moving forward anymore. It didn't really look like he was actually even trying to wrap anything up, so I decided to give up on the series until he finished.

It's conceivable I'll pick up again if/when his son releases the final book, but I don't know. I find it highly doubtful that any climatic ending could be satisfying and conclusive enough to justify more than a dozen huge books leading up to it; it just sounds like a recipe for disappointment. :shrug:

Personally, I'm a big fan of the trilogy; if you can't tell your story in three books, maybe you don't actually have a firm grasp of the story you're trying to tell.

[Michael]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through A Clash of Kings, the second book of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I've read them before, but the first season of the television show just ended (so I skipped book one: A Game of Thrones) and book five is coming out in July.

Michael, I think I've discussed this before, but I highly recommend this series for you. The only drawback is that it's not finished (two more books planned after the new one) and he keeps taking longer and longer in between releases. As you know, I don't care for a lot of magic in my fantasy and Martin has created a very subtle world of magic with an incredibly deep political drama.

Sounds interesting. I'll check it out. :)

[Donkey]

We are organizing our fledgling library.

"This can be our Extremely Depressing Nonfiction section.... genocide, gulag, Vietnam, genocide, genocide, genocide. All we need is Black Like Me."

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/camilosmurf/270038_605056550323_66204404_32975968_5722433_n.jp g

For those with less than the sharpest of eyes, the books are, in order, Dance With the Devil, about the Rwandan genocide, The Long Walk, about escape from a Siberian gulag, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, Night by Elie Wiesel, and The Hiding Place about a family who gave Jews refuge during WWII and payed for it dearly.

I've read all except Dance with the Devil and the latter half of Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. My mother read us The Hiding Place and I Refuse when we were quite young (like maybe 10?). The Black Like Me reference is to a book about a white journalist who darkens his skin for a year and lives as an African American in Jim Crowe South. She read that one to us as well.

[Donkey]

Looks kind of pitiful now that I take a picture of it.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/camilosmurf/Mobile%20Uploads/0627012255.jpg

[dilettante]

Looks kind of pitiful now that I take a picture of it.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/camilosmurf/Mobile%20Uploads/0627012255.jpg

I really like the use of space, breaking up the books with open space, candles and figures.

[Donkey]

I really like the use of space, breaking up the books with open space, candles and figures.

Thanks. With the smallness of our abode, anything we do is immediately visible and needs to be an aesthetic choice as well. It's a far cry from my parents' house where there entire floor to ceiling walls of books. I took a few of my favorites or ones I was particularly interested in when they moved. I'm afraid most ended up being donated somewhere.

[Michael]

Looks kind of pitiful now that I take a picture of it.

Yes, it looks like your book collection is merely an ornament or a decoration (as they are in so many homes).

I like bookshelves to be full of books, floor to ceiling. That's my taste.

[Donkey]

Yes, it looks like your book collection is merely an ornament or a decoration (as they are in so many homes).

I like bookshelves to be full of books, floor to ceiling. That's my taste.

Well, I decided to pass on taking the majority of my parents' books. It just wasn't practical. I like to think of this as the start of the rest of my life's collection of books (even if some of these don't make it all the way through). This is, after all, my first real home that wasn't my parents' house.

[Americano]

Yes, it looks like your book collection is merely an ornament or a decoration (as they are in so many homes).

I like bookshelves to be full of books, floor to ceiling. That's my taste.

About ten years ago I had floor to ceiling bookshelves on two walls of my office. We were planning a new home and my wife asked me if I wanted to duplicate my office in the new place.

After some thought I realized probably 90% of my books including technical and business references were never touched after the initial usage (less now with net access expanded). I decided I'd rather use that wall space for photos and artwork which would provide constant enjoyment.

I've never regretted that decision. I now keep a dozen or so books on hand and after reading/replacement they go directly to a nearby retirement home.

[nanacat]

About ten years ago I had floor to ceiling bookshelves on two walls of my office. We were planning a new home and my wife asked me if I wanted to duplicate my office in the new place.

After some thought I realized probably 90% of my books including technical and business references were never touched after the initial usage (less now with net access expanded). I decided I'd rather use that wall space for photos and artwork which would provide constant enjoyment.

I've never regretted that decision. I now keep a dozen or so books on hand and after reading/replacement they go directly to a nearby retirement home.

I saved all my books over the years, and after I retired and went to grad school I REALLY started buying and collecting. And then when I started teaching at Salem State I realized I could get free books from the publishers, so I went on a holy tear! My little apartment was filled, every room had bookcases, including a huge triple one in the hall. But when I moved to Florida I just couldn't take them with me. It was so hard to part with them, but I had to. Donated them to the prison. Now I just have two little bookcases in my bedroom, and actually one of the shelves has the kids' books on it. I use the Library a lot, and don't spend too much time browsing around in Barnes & Noble or Borders anymore. Everything looks too good. *sigh*

[JHC]

I know how you feel.

Since the house has been on the market, I removed our floor to ceiling bookshelves and put most of our books in storage. We ended up up-grading in size. The house is still well equipped with books!

One of the folks that came to see our house was overheard to say "wow, why do they have so many books?" :lol:

What can I say? I love them. I love the little notes in the margins, I love the actual words of the authors, the history, the occasional pressed flower (or bug), the hands they've passed through, the other minds who've appreciated them - used them as their own springboard.

I guess, books are to me what dolls are to little girls - lives. Some imagined, some real but only in memory and played out again when I read.

Before we sent the majority off to storage, I began cataloging them. There were nearly 700 books. It was a little startling. Granted, this includes Dad's old engineering manuals and USGS notebooks, Grandpa Joe's communist/socialist propaganda and books about trains and woodworking, right up to a collection of college textbooks from history to physics.

And I read them.

[Donkey]

I know how you feel.

Since the house has been on the market, I removed our floor to ceiling bookshelves and put most of our books in storage. We ended up up-grading in size. The house is still well equipped with books!

One of the folks that came to see our house was overheard to say "wow, why do they have so many books?" :lol:

What can I say? I love them. I love the little notes in the margins, I love the actual words of the authors, the history, the occasional pressed flower (or bug), the hands they've passed through, the other minds who've appreciated them - used them as their own springboard.

I guess, books are to me what dolls are to little girls - lives. Some imagined, some real but only in memory and played out again when I read.

Before we sent the majority off to storage, I began cataloging them. There were nearly 700 books. It was a little startling. Granted, this includes Dad's old engineering manuals and USGS notebooks, Grandpa Joe's communist/socialist propaganda and books about trains and woodworking, right up to a collection of college textbooks from history to physics.

And I read them.

Yeah I was thinking that, even though my collection is modest, a kindle would look pretty stupid sitting up there by itself.

[JHC]

Yeah I was thinking that, even though my collection is modest, a kindle would look pretty stupid sitting up there by itself.

Since you're planning on children, I recommend you keep at this book collecting and maybe see if you can get some books from your folks. It seems silly now but I just turned 46 and I can't tell you how much I appreciate having things that belonged to my ancestors. It's a little strange but somehow comforting.

You'll make a fine father.

[Donkey]

Since you're planning on children, I recommend you keep at this book collecting and maybe see if you can get some books from your folks. It seems silly now but I just turned 46 and I can't tell you how much I appreciate having things that belonged to my ancestors. It's a little strange but somehow comforting.
My mom kept a lot of the kids books. I took a few. Mateo took a few. I hope that between the three of us we kept the "precious" ones. We had the entire series of Arthur Ransome's swallows and Amazons in paperback, but the only I kept was the very, very old hardback version that was my mom's childhood copy.




You'll make a fine father.

Thanks. :)

[Zarquon]

The Believing Brain (http://www.amazon.com/Believing-Brain-Conspiracies-How-Construct-Reinforce/dp/0805091254) by Michael Shermer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer), mind-blowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAwfv3HYGo).

[dilettante]

Finished Out of the Silent Planet and will probably start Peralandra while on my trip.

In the meantime: Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter (http://www.amazon.com/Extra-Lives-Video-Matter-Vintage/dp/0307474313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309608285&sr=8-1), by Tom Bissell.

[dilettante]

Finished Out of the Silent Planet and will probably start Peralandra while on my trip.

In the meantime: Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter (http://www.amazon.com/Extra-Lives-Video-Matter-Vintage/dp/0307474313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309608285&sr=8-1), by Tom Bissell.

Finished Extra Lives (which was interesting, but felt kind of like a game-review-meets-personal-memoir...it needed a thesis).

Half-way through Peralandra (which is surprisingly creepy for a C.S. Lewis book).

Starting Greenback: The Almighty Dollar and the Invention of America (http://www.amazon.com/Greenback-Almighty-Dollar-Invention-America/dp/B000H2MEDC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310995440&sr=8-1) today.

[Donkey]

Half-way through Peralandra (which is surprisingly creepy for a C.S. Lewis book).


Did you get to the cave part yet?

I'm reading "Good Omens" by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. Hilarious. Kept me up late a couple nights last week, which I love. I'll probably finish it tonight.

[dilettante]

Did you get to the cave part yet?


Not yet. The whole biting through glass thing, the trail of vivisected frogs, and the idea of being trapped on another planet with a [dead?] body which is animated by Satan is pretty distressing though...
We aren't in the Chronicles of Narnia anymore, Toto.


I'm reading "Good Omens" by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. Hilarious. Kept me up late a couple nights last week, which I love. I'll probably finish it tonight.


I love Terry Prachett's Discworld books (most of them anyway). We have "Good Omens" in a pile of books in the study but I've never yet cracked it open.

[Michael]

I'm reading Collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed) by Jared Diamond.

Excellent book - as good as any other book by Jared Diamond and that's high praise.

[Americano]

I'm reading Collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed) by Jared Diamond.

Excellent book - as good as any other book by Jared Diamond and that's high praise.

You've touched on reasons for historical societal collapses in a few threads. I'll be curious as to how you review Diamond's latest effort as it relates to contemporary society.

[Abigail]

I am planning to read “Surface Detail” by Iain M. Banks. It is a science and fiction book.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I'm usually reading about half a dozen books at the same time.

At the moment:

Fiction:

Preben Mørkbak: Eirik Raude (Eric the Red) It's a novel about Eric the Red (who (kind of) discovered Greenland in the 10th century) and his son, Leif Eriksson, who (kind of) discovered Canada in the early 11th century. I'm reading it in Norwegian, translated from Danish, although written Danish is very close to written Norwegian. Excellent.

Henryk Sienkiewicz: Krzyzacy (The Knights of the Teutonic Order) It's about the Poles and the war against the Germans in the early 15th century. I'm reading it in the original Polish, and it's very difficult for me to understand. But I love the works of this writer, which I've written in English, and I'm very interested in Polish history.

William Shakespeare Hamlet. I'm reading it in Polish. It's excellent, and I've read it so many times that I understand much of it. Hamlet is a tragic character, tormented by the burden on his chest. Excellent.

Henryk Sienkiewicz Potop (The Deluge). It's 1656, and the Swedes have conquered the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Then they try to loot a Monastarty in Clear Hill, Czestochova. This is to push the Poles too far. I'm reading the English translation from Polish. Excellent.

P. G. Wodehouse Cocktail Time. Very funny book about a barrister who is provoked into writing a novel. Excellent.

Non-fiction:

Pawel Jasienica Polska Piastow. A history book about Poland under the Piast Dynasty, who ruled Poland from 966 to 1350-something. I understand bits here and there.

[MeMyselfAndI]

I have not read much of anything, for the moment. I was, recently, reading a book that compiles a list of all Cheka/GPU/NKVD/KGB secret agents and informants from 1920s to 1980s, names them all. Interesting book. But after I found the father of a close childhood friend mentioned there, I did not want to read anymore. I fear I may find someone from my family, if I go on...

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I have not read much of anything, for the moment. I was, recently, reading a book that compiles a list of all Cheka/GPU/NKVD/KGB secret agents and informants from 1920s to 1980s, names them all. Interesting book. But after I found the father of a close childhood friend mentioned there, I did not want to read anymore. I fear I may find someone from my family, if I go on...
Nothing like a bit of light reading, eh :)

[dilettante]

Did you get to the cave part yet?


Ok, that was also pretty creepy.
I'm not sure what I expected when I started reading C.S. Lewis sci-fi, but this wasn't it.

[Michael]

You've touched on reasons for historical societal collapses in a few threads. I'll be curious as to how you review Diamond's latest effort as it relates to contemporary society.

I will do that as soon as I finish the book - should be within a couple days. :)

[nanacat]

I'm finished with my Lewis phase, at least for the moment. BTW, guys, I didn't like the excerpts of his sci-fi stuff in The Visionary Christian, but then, I'm not much of a sci-fi fan. I think the last sci-fi book I read, (unless you consider The Little Prince sci-fi???) was Stranger in a Strange Land when I was in college. We were all reading it--stoned of course :angel:--and going around saying, "Do you grok?" and calling each other "Water Brothers." Geez, Louise, am I old....!

Anyway, it's summer and time for a little fiction. Over the weekend I picked up three books:The Gathering, by Anne Enright, an Irish author. It won the Booker and that's always been a good recommendation to me. I'm about 50 pages in and it's wonderful. Her writing is so elegant it forces you to slow down, to read more slowly so you can savor it.

On deck is The Meaning of Night, by Michael Cox, a lurid, chop-'em-up murder mystery set in 19th century England. Yummm... Just what the doctor ordered.

And finally, A Gate at the Stairs, by Lorrie Moore. I'd never heard of it, or her, but it seems to have gotten great reviews. The NYT blurb says "An indelible portrait of a young woman coming of age in the Midwest in the year after 9 / 11...." Huh. (I got it used at the local supermarket for a buck. How bad can it be?)

Will let you know how I fare.

[Non Sequitur]

Just finished Lords of the Sea (http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Sea-Story-Athenian-Democracy/dp/067002080X) by John Hale. Entertaining enough, but I have read much better History books

Now I'm off to start Paradise Lost.

[Michael]

Just finished Lords of the Sea (http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Sea-Story-Athenian-Democracy/dp/067002080X) by John Hale. Entertaining enough, but I have read much better History books

Really? That's a shame. I should think the topic would be a rich one. But then again - it was the hubris of Athenian militarism (represented by Athenian seapower) that ultimately resulted in the end of independent Athenian power, so I suppose there would be some dissonance there.

Now I'm off to start Paradise Lost.
I had to read that in high school. I found it dreadful back then.

[Non Sequitur]

Really? That's a shame. I should think the topic would be a rich one. But then again - it was the hubris of Athenian militarism (represented by Athenian seapower) that ultimately resulted in the end of independent Athenian power, so I suppose there would be some dissonance there.

Well it has a couple problems
1. not a footnote in the damn thing.
2. The real problem is that I find his support for his thesis flawed. His thesis is basically that Athens was a democracy because it was a naval power, not a ground army power like everyone else. While he brings up some half decent points, the author proceeds to just tell the story of Athens. It's like saying "see Athens had a navy, and Athens was a democracy."


I had to read that in high school. I found it dreadful back then.

Well the only verse i like (beyond T.S. Elliot) is epic poetry. Dante's Divine Trilogy is one of my favorite series of books.

I have no idea why schools make high schoolers read books like that. All it does is ruin good literature.

[Michael]

Well it has a couple problems
1. not a footnote in the damn thing.
2. The real problem is that I find his support for his thesis flawed. His thesis is basically that Athens was a democracy because it was a naval power, not a ground army power like everyone else. While he brings up some half decent points, the author proceeds to just tell the story of Athens. It's like saying "see Athens had a navy, and Athens was a democracy."

Yes, that kind of analysis is annoying. I don't see any rational or formal connection between navies and democracy.

Phoenecia, Carthage and Crete were all famous naval powers of history - yet none of them were democratic at all.

And Henry VIII was the father of the Royal Navy and he definitely wasn't very democratic either. Britain's navy long predates British democracy.

Well the only verse i like (beyond T.S. Elliot) is epic poetry. Dante's Divine Trilogy is one of my favorite series of books.

I have no idea why schools make high schoolers read books like that. All it does is ruin good literature.
Indeed - I have a lifelong hatred of poetry because of it. :shrug:

[Chrish]

Right now I’m reading “Another Fine Myth” by Robert Asprin. That’s a great book with interesting narrative.

[dilettante]

I've been reading Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. Part of today will be spent adding some material from it to a lecture.

Also reading The Reason for God by Tim Keller.

[nanacat]

I've been reading Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond.

How do you like it? That's one of those books that I've *almost* picked up (but never did get to ) a hundred times.

BTW, what do you teach?

[Michael]

How do you like it? That's one of those books that I've *almost* picked up (but never did get to ) a hundred times.
Definitely one of the best and most important 'eye-opening' books I've ever read.

Highly recommended.

[dilettante]

How do you like it? That's one of those books that I've *almost* picked up (but never did get to ) a hundred times.

It's a good book and engagingly written. It's also more extensive than I expected. I thought it would just cover the European conquest of the Americas; in fact it's something of a broad history of mankind. Unsurprisingly, it's also rather long, about 500 pages.

BTW, what do you teach?

American history.

[ErineRoy22]

Currently I am reading “Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?” by Claudia Carroll. It is an awesome love story which describes about human nature.

[Tegan10]

I couldn’t purchase any new books recently. Right now I am reading a magazine which is related to fashion trend.

[andrewl]

Into the second book of a A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. Fantasy Medieval type genre. Pretty popular right now with the Game of Thrones TV series, but I heard about it through my brother who recently became a D&D/Fantasy genre fan...

It is a fun read if you are into medieval fantasy. Apparently a couple video games are also being based on it.

[Americano]

Shanghai (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/Shanghai-Gets-Supersized.html) - Smithsonian Magazine

Amazing. If I still traveled it would be at the top of my list.

[nanacat]

Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross. God help me--it makes Leviticus read like Playboy.

[Michael]

Shanghai (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/Shanghai-Gets-Supersized.html) - Smithsonian Magazine

Amazing. If I still traveled it would be at the top of my list.

Indeed, amazing is the word!

[Donkey]

Finally picked up Game of Thrones. He's not the best writer by a long shot, but he sure knows how to tell a story.

[The Drunk Guy]

Finally picked up Game of Thrones. He's not the best writer by a long shot, but he sure knows how to tell a story.
I've read most of The Dragon's Path (http://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Path-Dagger-Coin/dp/0316080683) this weekend. It's written by one of Martin's cohorts and was recommended by him when my buddy went to his book signing this year.

Anywho...I've read worse, but it definitely gives me hope for my novel. I may not write literature, but I think I can at least write better than most genre-types. :shrug:

Speaking of which...I do plan on writing quite a bit over the next few weeks. I hope to be back in school in January, so I need to work while I have the time. In other words, don't expect much from me here on the forum.

[Greendruid]

GAH! My students' essay exams. I have no hope for the Twitter generation!

[pramjockey]

GAH! My students' essay exams. I have no hope for the Twitter generation!

:rofl:

[Non Sequitur]

Trial of God by Elie Wiesel

depressing...

[Suibhne]

Well, I suppose I may as well do this chronologically!

The last few books I've read and what I thought:

"Demian" by Hermann Hesse:
I found Demian very disappointing. It's been highly recommended to me (and often) for a few years and I finally got around to reading it: it was more like a watered down version of the worst bits from Hogg's The Private Memoirs and Confession of a Justified Sinner with less convincing characters, too-transparent (or cheesy?) plot devices, and a story that goes nowhere. Although I don't mean to drag Hogg's book into the mess, I read that one a few years ago and thought it was quite good.

"Manuscript Found in Sargossa" by Jan Potocki:
Fantastically fun read. For anyone who thought the movie Inception was kind of cool, it has absolutely nothing on the layers in this book. Stories within stories within stories, etc., but still following a linear plot. I'm not going to try to sum it up, because I just can't, but I highly recommend this one. Granted, it's not for anyone with little patience: many of the stories are often dropped and picked up again later on to make room for tangents of any sort. Think something along the lines of Tristram Shandy or If on a Winter's Night a Traveler.

"The Seeds of Time" by John Wyndham:
This one is a collection of short stories dealing with a time theme - futuristic stories, time travel, that sort of thing. Most of them were 'meh', with one particularly creepy story, Survival, dealing with the lengths of human desperation and adaptability, which I thought was well done. Having read almost all of his novels now, the best is by far The Day of the Triffids, which was really cool as far as sci-fi goes. I certainly didn't think this one was a waste of time, but your time would be better spent reading something else.


And onto a quick list of what I currently have my nose stuck in.

- I'm re-reading Conrad's Heart of Darkness. It's been close to a decade since I last picked it up, and I really like Conrad.

- The Classical Vernacular by Scruton. A book about classical architecture (and a rallying call to reintroduce classical influences into modern architecture). Extremely biased. Wow, is he ever biased.

- I just started A History of Canadian Culture by Jonathan Vance. I can't say much about it yet, but it focuses largely on artistic culture, not culture generally.


Next on the list, in theory... unless something else catches my fancy in the meantime:

- A Game of Thrones - the first book in Martin's A Song of Ice of Fire series. I borrowed this one from a friend, so I do have to get through it soon. I don't have very high expectations for it, but I thought the TV series was really well done, so I'm looking forward to the next book(s) in the series more than anything.

- I want to re-read O'Brien's At Swim-Two-Birds. I haven't picked it up in a while, and it's a favourite of mine.

- Taylor's A Secular Age has been staring me down since I bought it when it was first published a couple (?) years ago. Now that my schedule isn't packed with other philosophy stuff, I think I'll give it a whirl.

[pramjockey]

Next on the list, in theory... unless something else catches my fancy in the meantime:

- A Game of Thrones - the first book in Martin's A Song of Ice of Fire series. I borrowed this one from a friend, so I do have to get through it soon. I don't have very high expectations for it, but I thought the TV series was really well done, so I'm looking forward to the next book(s) in the series more than anything.


I got a Kindle for Christmas (love that thing, BTW) and the first 4 books of the series were the first books I loaded. I'm like 15% of the way in.

So far, I'm really enjoying it. You may be surprised.

[The Drunk Guy]

I got a Kindle for Christmas (love that thing, BTW) and the first 4 books of the series were the first books I loaded. I'm like 15% of the way in.

So far, I'm really enjoying it. You may be surprised.
A Storm of Swords is my favorite. He takes your hope and stomps it into the mud. Then pisses on it.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

On the 7th of February, Charles Dickens will be 200 years old.
I'm marking this by reading some Dickens literature.
What a wonderful writer he was.
A warm writer who just appears to love humanity, but dislike the disease in humanity.

[pramjockey]

A Storm of Swords is my favorite. He takes your hope and stomps it into the mud. Then pisses on it.

Drat. I was just starting to like some of the characters.

[The Drunk Girl]

Drat. I was just starting to like some of the characters.

Have you watched the HBO series?

[Donkey]

Drat. I was just starting to like some of the characters.

Good luck with that.

[pramjockey]

Have you watched the HBO series?

I saw the first episode - it was enough for me to want to read the books (and then I'll watch the series).

Good luck with that.

No spoilers!

[Suibhne]

I saw the first episode - it was enough for me to want to read the books (and then I'll watch the series).

Hurry! The second season is starting up soon.

[pramjockey]

Hurry! The second season is starting up soon.

:)

Have to wait for them to come out to DVD anyway - we don't subscribe to HBO.

I have been tearing through the books, though. I haven't read like this in years and years.

[The Drunk Guy]

:)

Have to wait for them to come out to DVD anyway - we don't subscribe to HBO.

I have been tearing through the books, though. I haven't read like this in years and years.

You could "borrow" a friend's HBO Go account. ;)

[Michael]

Trial of God by Elie Wiesel

depressing...

So is God guilty or innocent? :D

[Michael]

Well, I suppose I may as well do this chronologically!

The last few books I've read and what I thought:

"Demian" by Hermann Hesse:
I found Demian very disappointing. It's been highly recommended to me (and often) for a few years and I finally got around to reading it: it was more like a watered down version of the worst bits from Hogg's The Private Memoirs and Confession of a Justified Sinner with less convincing characters, too-transparent (or cheesy?) plot devices, and a story that goes nowhere. Although I don't mean to drag Hogg's book into the mess, I read that one a few years ago and thought it was quite good.

I've read a couple by Hesse, Steppenwolf and Siddhartha, and was completely underwhelmed - though that doesn't say much since I'm usually underwhelmed by 20th century fiction.

Must be something about universities - I read a bunch of fiction after I graduated and have avoided fiction ever since. I really only read non-fiction these days.

"Manuscript Found in Sargossa" by Jan Potocki:
Fantastically fun read. For anyone who thought the movie Inception was kind of cool, it has absolutely nothing on the layers in this book. Stories within stories within stories, etc., but still following a linear plot. I'm not going to try to sum it up, because I just can't, but I highly recommend this one. Granted, it's not for anyone with little patience: many of the stories are often dropped and picked up again later on to make room for tangents of any sort. Think something along the lines of Tristram Shandy or If on a Winter's Night a Traveler.
Sounds like you might enjoy Foucault's Pendulum, by Umberto Eco. I just recommended it to Tom about a week ago. :lol:

It is rather loaded with unexpected layers and many plot turns. It is a satire on the whole "Da Vinci Code" thing - written before Dan Brown started writing books. Highly recommended - light reading but a real pleasure.


"The Seeds of Time" by John Wyndham:
This one is a collection of short stories dealing with a time theme - futuristic stories, time travel, that sort of thing. Most of them were 'meh', with one particularly creepy story, Survival, dealing with the lengths of human desperation and adaptability, which I thought was well done. Having read almost all of his novels now, the best is by far The Day of the Triffids, which was really cool as far as sci-fi goes. I certainly didn't think this one was a waste of time, but your time would be better spent reading something else.

I got burned on John Wyndham back in High School when I was FORCED to read The Chrysalids which arguably was the most horrible reading experience of my entire life. Part of the reason I hate fiction so much has to be blamed on this book. :lol:

- I'm re-reading Conrad's Heart of Darkness. It's been close to a decade since I last picked it up, and I really like Conrad.

Can't go wrong with Conrad. Heart of Darkness is a brilliant book. Be sure to watch Coppola's Apocalypse Now after you finished reading the book. In my opinion, this is a rare occasion where the film is as good as the book.


- Taylor's A Secular Age has been staring me down since I bought it when it was first published a couple (?) years ago. Now that my schedule isn't packed with other philosophy stuff, I think I'll give it a whirl.
You can't go wrong with Charles Taylor. I believe I've posted about him many times here at the forum. I have also claimed Charles Taylor to be one of the most significant influences upon my studies of philosophy and political science. His Massey Lecture series, The Malaise of Modernity has been a bit of a lifetime obsession of mine!

I also had the honor to attend a few lectures with Taylor and engage in one-to-one discussions with him. A brilliant man.

[pramjockey]

You could "borrow" a friend's HBO Go account. ;)

That's a very, very kind offer!

[The Drunk Guy]

That's a very, very kind offer!

I'll be more than happy to share when my cable provider gets set up for it. They just settled on it last month, so it may be a while before we can actually use the service.

[Suibhne]

I've read a couple by Hesse, Steppenwolf and Siddhartha, and was completely underwhelmed - though that doesn't say much since I'm usually underwhelmed by 20th century fiction.

Must be something about universities - I read a bunch of fiction after I graduated and have avoided fiction ever since. I really only read non-fiction these days.

Underwhelmed is right. I haven't decided whether to pick up anything else by Hesse, but I don't think I'll bother. While I tend to agree with you in terms of 20th c literature generally, there are a few gems. James Joyce, Ford Madox Ford, Brian O'Nolan (Flann O'Brien/Myles nGopaleen), Luigi Pirandello, and Arthur Koestler are all excellent; I'd also include H.G. Wells, Isaac Asimov, and Italo Calvino to the list. I'm sure there are others I'd also highly recommend, but that's a decent short list of the top of my head.

There are less 20th c poets I'd recommend, if you're into poetry at all, but there are some excellent poets, too - although poetry is definitely a bit more touch-and-go.


Sounds like you might enjoy Foucault's Pendulum, by Umberto Eco. I just recommended it to Tom about a week ago. :lol:

It is rather loaded with unexpected layers and many plot turns. It is a satire on the whole "Da Vinci Code" thing - written before Dan Brown started writing books. Highly recommended - light reading but a real pleasure.

Eco has been on my to-read list for a long time, and I just haven't gotten to him yet. Now that I'm out of school, I should definitely try find some time to do so.


I got burned on John Wyndham back in High School when I was FORCED to read The Chrysalids which arguably was the most horrible reading experience of my entire life. Part of the reason I hate fiction so much has to be blamed on this book. :lol:

Yeah... The Chrysalids is probably Wyndham's most famous and, I think, his worst book. I had just recently recommended Triffids to someone, which is why I picked up the time collection. The way high schools (and to some extent universities) go about selecting and enforcing reading material should be changed; I spent a ton of time reading in high school, and as little of it as I could manage reading what I was supposed to, because it's almost invariably garbage.


Can't go wrong with Conrad. Heart of Darkness is a brilliant book. Be sure to watch Coppola's Apocalypse Now after you finished reading the book. In my opinion, this is a rare occasion where the film is as good as the book.

Heart of Darkness is still the only Conrad I've read, but I like revisiting favourites. I'll probably pick up some more of his stuff in the future, but I'll make sure to watch the film.

You can't go wrong with Charles Taylor. I believe I've posted about him many times here at the forum. I have also claimed Charles Taylor to be one of the most significant influences upon my studies of philosophy and political science. His Massey Lecture series, The Malaise of Modernity has been a bit of a lifetime obsession of mine!

I also had the honor to attend a few lectures with Taylor and engage in one-to-one discussions with him. A brilliant man.

Alasdair MacIntyre's After Virtue is the first philosophy book I read, and from him I found Taylor shortly after. I'm not sure if Malaise of Modernity or Sources of the Self was the first I read of Taylor, but you're right that he is quite good - not the most pleasant writer, to be sure, but extremely informative. I believe he just had another book published (a collection of essays, if I remember correctly) that I've been meaning to pick up.

Yeah, I just checked it out: Dilemmas and Connections: Selected Essays. FYI, the hardcover is on amazon for 37% off the list price (actually, it's only available in hardcover right now). That is now a Christmas present to myself. Booyah!

[nanacat]

Welcome aboard, Sweeney! My username on an Irish forum I was on about 10 years ago was Suibhne Gelt. Any relation? :lol:

Noticed you had several Irish authors on your list--are you into Irish literature at all? With the exception of James Joyce (sorry, just CANNOT deal with him, OR with Samuel Beckett's fiction either!) I'm a big fan of contemporary Irish fiction and poetry, even some of the ancient stuff. It's just the so-called "moderns" that make me wonder what they hell they were smoking.

[Michael]

Welcome aboard, Sweeney! My username on an Irish forum I was on about 10 years ago was Suibhne Gelt. Any relation? :lol:
I was trying to figure out the pronunciation of that name. I did recognize the Gaelic style spelling. I figured Greendruid would come along and translate it eventually. :)

[Suibhne]

Welcome aboard, Sweeney! My username on an Irish forum I was on about 10 years ago was Suibhne Gelt. Any relation? :lol:

Noticed you had several Irish authors on your list--are you into Irish literature at all? With the exception of James Joyce (sorry, just CANNOT deal with him, OR with Samuel Beckett's fiction either!) I'm a big fan of contemporary Irish fiction and poetry, even some of the ancient stuff. It's just the so-called "moderns" that make me wonder what they hell they were smoking.

Thanks!
After King Sweeney, yeah. He made a cameo as a character in At Swim-Two-Birds - if you haven't read it, it's one of my favourite books and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Joyce, on the other hand, I wouldn't recommend to everyone. I really like him, but I can't say I haven't struggled with him quite a bit - and I get that his writing isn't to everyone's taste. I can tell you despite several attempts thus far, I haven't been able to get more than about 30 pages into Finnegans Wake... but one of these days I'll do it.

There's definitely a reason Beckett didn't make my shortlist... I can deal with him, but ugh. I'd rather not. I'm with you both as a fan of Irish lit/poetry generally, and also as partial to pre-modern (pre-post-modern?) work.

Who are some of your favourites?

[Greendruid]

I was trying to figure out the pronunciation of that name. I did recognize the Gaelic style spelling. I figured Greendruid would come along and translate it eventually. :)

I've actually never heard it pronounced 'Sweeney'. I've heard 'Siv-nuh' and 'Sive-nuh'. There is really no 'W' in Erse. How do you pronounce it Suibhne? That's all that really matters.

[drgoodtrips]

Lately, I've been reading mostly shop books about programming as well as trade blogs and the like. So, I made a New Years resolution to return to being more of the academic dabbler that I used to be. I loaded up Thus Spake Zathustra on my new Kindle and have read the first 6 chapters.

The Kindle is actually great for high brow reading since the only free items seem to be classics and weird soft core porn romance-type books. I have a lot of random fiction books floating around the house, so there's always the temptation to read something like Stephen King or Ken Follett, but the Kindle will probably propel me toward reading more notable texts.

[Michael]

Lately, I've been reading mostly shop books about programming as well as trade blogs and the like. So, I made a New Years resolution to return to being more of the academic dabbler that I used to be. I loaded up Thus Spake Zathustra on my new Kindle and have read the first 6 chapters.
That's a good read. The problem with reading Nietzsche is that after you read one of his books, three or four times, and you think you understand where Nietzsche is coming from, then you read a different Nietzsche title and all of a sudden, everything changes. You pretty much have to read a half-dozen titles several times to get to the point where he starts making sense on a consistent basis!

Definitely NOT the easiest writer to read.

Btw, Beyond Good and Evil is my fav.

The Kindle is actually great for high brow reading since the only free items seem to be classics and weird soft core porn romance-type books. I have a lot of random fiction books floating around the house, so there's always the temptation to read something like Stephen King or Ken Follett, but the Kindle will probably propel me toward reading more notable texts.

That's because Congress hasn't figured out how to legally allow some American corporation to claim copyright ownership of books written 2000+ years ago on another continent. I'm sure they are trying though!

Disney, with lots of help from Congress has succeeded in claiming ownership of all kinds of stuff created in Germany during the 16th-18th centuries (mostly from the Brothers Grimm), so I wouldn't say its impossible for ancient Greek classic texts to come under copyright again. The will of Congress apparently knows no bounds (certainly not that petty constitution thing you Americans seem to think is so important!).

[drgoodtrips]

That's a good read. The problem with reading Nietzsche is that after you read one of his books, three or four times, and you think you understand where Nietzsche is coming from, then you read a different Nietzsche title and all of a sudden, everything changes. You pretty much have to read a half-dozen titles several times to get to the point where he starts making sense on a consistent basis!

Definitely NOT the easiest writer to read.

Btw, Beyond Good and Evil is my fav.

I have that one too (in print). I read it some years back, but only once, and I certainly think that these books need to be read multiple times. During my reading the other day, I got the impression for some reason that Nietzsche specifically wrote it to be read multiple times.


That's because Congress hasn't figured out how to legally allow some American corporation to claim copyright ownership of books written 2000+ years ago on another continent. I'm sure they are trying though!

Disney, with lots of help from Congress has succeeded in claiming ownership of all kinds of stuff created in Germany during the 16th-18th centuries (mostly from the Brothers Grimm), so I wouldn't say its impossible for ancient Greek classic texts to come under copyright again. The will of Congress apparently knows no bounds (certainly not that petty constitution thing you Americans seem to think is so important!).

Yeah... follow the money. That was my impression as well - there's only no fee for such a thing because trying to claim some kind of intellectual property is just too absurd. Of course, it'll probably just take someone on ancestor.com claiming lineage to some classical author or another before we start having to pay them royalties (plus the 1000% markup that the distributor will charge).

[Non Sequitur]

That's a good read. The problem with reading Nietzsche is that after you read one of his books, three or four times, and you think you understand where Nietzsche is coming from, then you read a different Nietzsche title and all of a sudden, everything changes. You pretty much have to read a half-dozen titles several times to get to the point where he starts making sense on a consistent basis!

Definitely NOT the easiest writer to read.

Btw, Beyond Good and Evil is my fav.

I think the Nietzsche would be proud to know that after his death he is still the atheist that every theologian has to deal with. Pretty impressive accomplishment.

[Suibhne]

I've actually never heard it pronounced 'Sweeney'. I've heard 'Siv-nuh' and 'Sive-nuh'. There is really no 'W' in Erse. How do you pronounce it Suibhne? That's all that really matters.

My first experience with the name was as "King Sweeney" in Flann O'Brien's At Swim-Two-Birds, so I pronounce it Sweeney. It's definitely an anglicized version of the name: O'Brien actually pokes fun at a number of poor attempts to translate Irish lore into English (especially translations by Lady Gregory) so "Sweeney" may be a result of that!

[Greendruid]

My first experience with the name was as "King Sweeney" in Flann O'Brien's At Swim-Two-Birds, so I pronounce it Sweeney. It's definitely an anglicized version of the name: O'Brien actually pokes fun at a number of poor attempts to translate Irish lore into English (especially translations by Lady Gregory) so "Sweeney" may be a result of that!

I blame it all on whoever thought it was a good idea to fit the Latin alphabet to a language that refuses to cooperate with that letter set. The Gaelic languages as a group continue to defy the logic that is usually able to flow from phonological rules. It just doesn't conform to the rule sets at all. English is not terribly much different and probably so for similar reasons. Both are languages (groups) of peoples overrun by constant ebbs and flows of invaders, raiders, traders and haters. But I guess the real question is, why spell your forum name in Erse when you pronounce it in English?

[Suibhne]

I blame it all on whoever thought it was a good idea to fit the Latin alphabet to a language that refuses to cooperate with that letter set. The Gaelic languages as a group continue to defy the logic that is usually able to flow from phonological rules. It just doesn't conform to the rule sets at all. English is not terribly much different and probably so for similar reasons. Both are languages (groups) of peoples overrun by constant ebbs and flows of invaders, raiders, traders and haters.

Yeah, I have an Old Irish intro grammar... extremely complicated and confusing written language. I'm very slowly working on it...

But I guess the real question is, why spell your forum name in Erse when you pronounce it in English?

Why not?

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I blame it all on whoever thought it was a good idea to fit the Latin alphabet to a language that refuses to cooperate with that letter set. The Gaelic languages as a group continue to defy the logic that is usually able to flow from phonological rules. It just doesn't conform to the rule sets at all.
Nonsense. The Latin alphabet has no rules that have to apply in all its languages. If I want to fit the Latin alphabet round a new language, and I come across a sound that I haven't heard before, I simply invent a combination of Latin letters, to represent that sound. (I may also invent a new letter, but that's not necessary, the combination method works fine.)

For example, the English th-sounds (unvoiced and voiced). Didn't exist in Latin, so we take two Latin letters, t and h, and there you have it. Personally, I think the voiced th-sound should be spelled dh (after all, it is two distinct sounds), but that is a trivial point.

And in central and Northern Spain, they have the unvoiced th-sound, and they represent it with a c, if it is followed by e, i or y, and with a z, it is followed by a, o or u. Works absolutely fine.

In French, they have our w-sound (but not the letter w), which didn't exist in Latin, and they spell it ou as in oui (yes), another combination. We Germanics chose to invent a new letter, w which became the sound we know in English today as w, and a v-sound in German, Dutch and (much much later) the Slavic language of Polish.

It doesn't even seem to have OCCURRED to the people who fitted the Latin language round NEW languages, that there were RULES that they were obliged to follow, and that wonderful achievement, which has given most European languages such a useful common alphabet deserves our whole-hearted congratulation.

nanacat, thanks for 'translating' the name suibhne so that I know how to pronounce it. I had no idea that they were the same name. ;)

[NickKIELCEPoland]

PS: suibhne, Greendruid is talking about the alphabet. The alphabet's job is not grammar, but to represent sounds. So grammar is not a barrier to the use of the Latin alphabet.

[Donkey]

Nonsense. The Latin alphabet has no rules that have to apply in all its languages. If I want to fit the Latin alphabet round a new language, and I come across a sound that I haven't heard before, I simply invent a combination of Latin letters, to represent that sound. (I may also invent a new letter, but that's not necessary, the combination method works fine.)

For example, the English th-sounds (unvoiced and voiced). Didn't exist in Latin, so we take two Latin letters, t and h, and there you have it. Personally, I think the voiced th-sound should be spelled dh (after all, it is two distinct sounds), but that is a trivial point.

And in central and Northern Spain, they have the unvoiced th-sound, and they represent it with a c, if it is followed by e, i or y, and with a z, it is followed by a, o or u. Works absolutely fine.

In French, they have our w-sound (but not the letter w), which didn't exist in Latin, and they spell it ou as in oui (yes), another combination. We Germanics chose to invent a new letter, w which became the sound we know in English today as w, and a v-sound in German, Dutch and (much much later) the Slavic language of Polish.

It doesn't even seem to have OCCURRED to the people who fitted the Latin language round NEW languages, that there were RULES that they were obliged to follow, and that wonderful achievement, which has given most European languages such a useful common alphabet deserves our whole-hearted congratulation.

nanacat, thanks for 'translating' the name suibhne so that I know how to pronounce it. I had no idea that they were the same name. ;)

Yeah transliteration is pretty foolproof. Remind me how you spell the recently deposed and deceased leader of Libya's name?

How do you pronounce Nguyen?

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Yeah transliteration is pretty foolproof. Remind me how you spell the recently deposed and deceased leader of Libya's name?

How do you pronounce Nguyen?
I don't know.
But this is not about transliteration. This is about whether or not the Latin alphabet can be used as the alphabet of whichever language, or not.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

If I want to fit the Latin alphabet round a new language, and I come across a sound that I haven't heard before, I simply invent a combination of Latin letters, to represent that sound..
As I said, very simple indeed.

[Donkey]

I don't know.
But this is not about transliteration. This is about whether or not the Latin alphabet can be used as the alphabet of whichever language, or not.

What? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration)

[NickKIELCEPoland]

What? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration)
Exactly, not abut what we are talking about [.... message edited....].

[pramjockey]

How do you pronounce Nguyen?

Ooh! Ooh! I know!

:cool:

[Michael]

I just finished reading Mackenzie King, His Life and World, by J.L. Granatstein.

The book is a bit too haliographic for my taste, though I do admire King's political acumen. Unfortunately, Granatstein didn't get too much into the more interesting side of Canada's most interesting Prime Minister. I've read quite a bit about King just because of that - I've never been able to determine if the guy was half-nuts or not. :lol:

Anyway, I've got a set of these PM biographies in hardcover given to me a while back and I've been working my way through them. Next up is Borden. :erm:

[Suibhne]

I just finished The Talented Mr. Ripley (meh) and I'm halfway through Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon, which is excellent. I've started A Game of Thrones as well - I'll probably finish that over the next couple days so I have lots of time to get through the second book before the next season starts.

Outside of fiction, I'm a couple hundred pages into A Secular Age and I just picked up The Origins of European Individualism by Gurevich, which seems like an update of Collin Morris' The Discovery of the Individual - a favourite of mine to throw into essays and conversations.

I recently bought Louis Zukofsky's collected fiction; I've read his novel Little before, but I'm looking forward to read it again (as well as his shorter stories). Zukofsky is by leaps and bounds the best poet I've read, and his fiction isn't terribly far behind... but you really need to put on your thinking cap and know a thing or two about a thing or two.



I just finished reading Mackenzie King, His Life and World, by J.L. Granatstein.

I've read a few by Granatstein, Who Killed Canadian History?, Who Killed the Canadian Military? as well as another one I can't remember that I had taken out of the library. He's not bad!

I've been meaning to get through some PM biographies as well. I've read a couple on Laurier... and that's as far as I've gotten.

[nanacat]

Suibhne Gelt is indeed pronounced, Sweev-ne gelt, the "gelt" meaning mad. It's from an ancient legend of Mad King Sweeney, who with advancing age got more and more confused and disenchanted with the world till he finally climbed a tree and refused to come down. (No wonder the old coot appealed to me.)

Sweeney, as for my favorites, don't get me started! (Or then again, please do!) I love Flann O'Brian, Liam O'Flaherty, John McGahern, and their doomed but wonderful contemporary, Brendan Behan. What the friggin' Irish have lost to booze...! I guess my current favorites are Roddy Doyle, though he may be all written out by now, Brian Moore, Colm Toibin, and the dark, brilliant, and hysterical Patrick McCabe and Neil Jordan. This last summer I "discovered" Anne Enright, although she's been writing for a decade. And I absolutely adore William Trevor. I know the Brits claim him--but then again, they had the balls to claim Yeats as well!--but he lives in Mitchellstown in Co. Cork, right under Mount Cashel, so he's Irish in my book. "Reading Turgenev," part of his Two Lives novel, is still one of the most beautiful stories I've ever read.

For non-fiction I like reading Joseph O'Connor's pieces, and Pete McCarthy. I roared all through his book, McCarthy's Bar.

My poets start and end with Yeats. Period. He's up there with Shakespeare for me.

But second-fiddle to him I enjoy Patrick Kavanagh. I think if he hadn't lived in the physical time and shadow of Yeats he would have gotten more acclaim, and the later generations are seeing that. I love Seamus Heaney, and in HIS particular shadow, Derek Mahon and Michael Longley. I also like Michael Hartnett--the few pieces I've found in English--and Eavan Boland.

I think you're brave for even starting Joyce. I had to suffer through a Beckett novel in grad school, can't even remember the name it was so awful. But then again, I remember slugging through the complete Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman--some of which is marvelous, I admit--but most of which is just going onandonandon..... Geez. But my professor told me that Whitman proofread each and every word and intended it all to be just as it was. So I guess Beckett and Joyce don't own the patent on that kind of writing.

[Suibhne]

Suibhne Gelt is indeed pronounced, Sweev-ne gelt, the "gelt" meaning mad. It's from an ancient legend of Mad King Sweeney, who with advancing age got more and more confused and disenchanted with the world till he finally climbed a tree and refused to come down. (No wonder the old coot appealed to me.)

Yup, I have the same reason for liking the old bugger.

Sweeney, as for my favorites, don't get me started! (Or then again, please do!) I love Flann O'Brian, Liam O'Flaherty, John McGahern, and their doomed but wonderful contemporary, Brendan Behan. What the friggin' Irish have lost to booze...! I guess my current favorites are Roddy Doyle, though he may be all written out by now, Brian Moore, Colm Toibin, and the dark, brilliant, and hysterical Patrick McCabe and Neil Jordan. This last summer I "discovered" Anne Enright, although she's been writing for a decade. And I absolutely adore William Trevor. I know the Brits claim him--but then again, they had the balls to claim Yeats as well!--but he lives in Mitchellstown in Co. Cork, right under Mount Cashel, so he's Irish in my book. "Reading Turgenev," part of his Two Lives novel, is still one of the most beautiful stories I've ever read.

For non-fiction I like reading Joseph O'Connor's pieces, and Pete McCarthy. I roared all through his book, McCarthy's Bar.

My poets start and end with Yeats. Period. He's up there with Shakespeare for me.

But second-fiddle to him I enjoy Patrick Kavanagh. I think if he hadn't lived in the physical time and shadow of Yeats he would have gotten more acclaim, and the later generations are seeing that. I love Seamus Heaney, and in HIS particular shadow, Derek Mahon and Michael Longley. I also like Michael Hartnett--the few pieces I've found in English--and Eavan Boland.

Thanks! You've definitely given me a bunch of books/authors to add to my list. Yeats is definitely in my top 5 poets (maybe top 3), but Zukofsky takes the cake for me; his precision with language is at least on par with Joyce, if not more so, but you don't get the same bad taste after something like Leaves of Grass. Zukofsky's "A" is my favourite poem, hands down, but it's long - 803 pp in the new edition: unfortunately a lot of his writing was out of print for a long time, but most of it has been republished recently. Booyah.

I think you're brave for even starting Joyce. I had to suffer through a Beckett novel in grad school, can't even remember the name it was so awful. But then again, I remember slugging through the complete Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman--some of which is marvelous, I admit--but most of which is just going onandonandon..... Geez. But my professor told me that Whitman proofread each and every word and intended it all to be just as it was. So I guess Beckett and Joyce don't own the patent on that kind of writing.

I can't pretend to understand much of Finnegans Wake, but the odd bit I can catch is really funny. Beckett and Synge are the only two Irish writers that I've read whom I haven't liked one bit.

[Donkey]

I haven't read much Irish literature at all, but I'm curious: is there any element of what you would call Magical Realism? It strikes me as the type of culture that might produce it.

[nanacat]

I haven't read much Irish literature at all, but I'm curious: is there any element of what you would call Magical Realism? It strikes me as the type of culture that might produce it.

Nottttt really, not that I know of. Not like Marquez or Salman Rushdie. (BTW, ever read Midnight's Children? Oh, how I loved that book!)

The older Irish writers, post independence from Britain, but prior to say, the sexual revolution (which hit Ireland much later than it did the rest of the world because of de Valera's all pervasive, institutionalized Catholic obsession) were preoccupied with the transitional problems of creating a new, semi-secular state, at least till the 90's; with the land itself, what had been lost and what was left due to the shadow of the famine and political divisions; and with the now voluntary, but still disruptive wave of emigration, especially to North America, that started probably in the 60's, I'm guessing. (Brian Moore actually lives in Canada now, I think. And Kenneally, I think his name is, the Irish-Australian author of Schindler's List.) The more current authors write about those who stayed on through the economically and politically desperate times and made it through to the Celtic Tiger economy of the 90's and *relative* peacetime. Most of these are about contemporary Irish life: life AFTER the iron fist of Catholicism, strange bedfellows, family crimes and secrets, crazies and spies, and now IMMIGRATION, the flooding of the country with non-Irish Catholics who not only don't speak Irish, but don't even speak feckin' English, and who do not LOOK atall atall like the red-headed, freckled face of pre European Union Ireland. Quite an upheaval. Most of these writers are just plain funny, ironic and dark. Doyle, McCabe, the Ripley Bogle books. (I forget the name of that author right this minute. Young guy who wrote two great novels, then left Northern Ireland and headed for the coast of France.)

Anyway, a long-winded answer to your original question, I know. Maybe the closest I can think of to any kind of magic realism would be Flann O'Brian, especially his At-Swim-Two Birds. It's certainly absurd enough. Maybe Suibhne could tell you more about it.....

[Suibhne]

Maybe the closest I can think of to any kind of magic realism would be Flann O'Brian, especially his At-Swim-Two Birds. It's certainly absurd enough. Maybe Suibhne could tell you more about it.....

Definitely Flann O'Brien stuff (not so much his Myles work). At Swim-Two-Birds is, I think, his best, but either The Third Policeman or The Dalkey Archive could also fit somewhat into magical realism. I'll do my best to give you a quick break-down of the first, but it would be difficult to give you an idea of how the latter two fit into that genre without some serious spoilers. I don't have a clue how I can go about this, but here you go...

At Swim-Two-Birds
As simply as it gets, and insofar as my memory serves me correctly here, this is a novel written by Flann O'Brien which is actually three (or four or five) novels intertwined into one (or rather one novel about a novel with three beginnings and also the novel as a whole including or not including the first layer or two): there is the story following the classic Irish hero translated "Finn Mac Cool" (Fionn mac Cumhaill) as he relates stories to an audience; the story following a Pooka (devil-type character) and his adventures with the Good Fairy (a good fairy); as well as what I would call the dominant story line in the sub-storyline, which focuses on a writer of Westerns who is writing a new novel, but thinks that there are far too many unique characters in existence to create any more, so he borrows characters from other stories... little does he know, when he's not actively engaged in writing his new novel, and thus redefining each character, they revert to their initial character-type.

If that isn't complicated enough, the Western writer keeps all of the stolen characters in his hotel room with him so that he can watch over them... things happen and the characters run into the Pooka, as well as colliding in some parts with Finn. Everything for all intents and purposes explodes all of the place and disrupts different layers (think Inception, but way better), and there is a particularly touching scene near the end featuring King Sweeney.

Naturally, the bits and pieces of these story lines are in fact read as the student novelist writes them and shows them to his peers, but there's also the overarching storyline of the novelist himself and his own adventures in (and mostly out of) school, in pubs, having it out with his family, and all sorts of things.

Then it all hits the fan and things get tragic pretty quickly. Perhaps the most entertaining book I've ever read.

If you're interested at all (and no one can possibly do justice to any of O'Brien's novels in a summary), the Everyman's Library published a nice and very inexpensive hardcover of his complete novels a few years ago. I think it's about $20 or so (CDN, probably cheaper USD) and they're very nice editions - along with the three I mentioned, the volume also has The Hard Life and The Poor Mouth, which are both worth reading in their own right, but have a slightly different pace to them. If it makes it any more interesting at all, somewhere in one of the novels, one of the characters tell the Pope to f off.

...otherwise there have been some half decent paperbacks published within the last few years as well of both At Swim-Two-Birds and The Third Policeman individually, but they're probably about $15 each, anyways.

HOWEVER,

I think the closest Irish novel I've read to "magical realism" is probably James Stephens' The Crock of Gold. I completely forgot about Stephens. His poetry is really good too (very lyrical) if you're into that sort of thing - most of the people I know who know of Stephens (which, admittedly, is probably 4 people) only really know of his poetry. Anyway, this novel is about two philosophers who meet two sister witches, and the witches marry the philosophers in order to make them miserable... then one philosopher effectively reaches enlightenment or something like that and disappears along with his wife: the bulk of the novel follows the remaining philosophers travels trying to solve a somewhat magical mystery.

Oh, not the mystery about the other philosopher, but about how and why his children were abducted by all the leprechauns. Or if they were abducted at all. Kinda.

So there you go.

[Michael]

At Swim-Two-Birds
As simply as it gets, and insofar as my memory serves me correctly here, this is a novel written by Flann O'Brien which is actually three (or four or five) novels intertwined into one (or rather one novel about a novel with three beginnings and also the novel as a whole including or not including the first layer or two): there is the story following the classic Irish hero translated "Finn Mac Cool" (Fionn mac Cumhaill) as he relates stories to an audience; the story following a Pooka (devil-type character) and his adventures with the Good Fairy (a good fairy); as well as what I would call the dominant story line in the sub-storyline, which focuses on a writer of Westerns who is writing a new novel, but thinks that there are far too many unique characters in existence to create any more, so he borrows characters from other stories... little does he know, when he's not actively engaged in writing his new novel, and thus redefining each character, they revert to their initial character-type.

If that isn't complicated enough, the Western writer keeps all of the stolen characters in his hotel room with him so that he can watch over them... things happen and the characters run into the Pooka, as well as colliding in some parts with Finn. Everything for all intents and purposes explodes all of the place and disrupts different layers (think Inception, but way better), and there is a particularly touching scene near the end featuring King Sweeney.

Naturally, the bits and pieces of these story lines are in fact read as the student novelist writes them and shows them to his peers, but there's also the overarching storyline of the novelist himself and his own adventures in (and mostly out of) school, in pubs, having it out with his family, and all sorts of things.

Then it all hits the fan and things get tragic pretty quickly. Perhaps the most entertaining book I've ever read.

This novel sounds like it is the penultimate example of postmodernist literature. :lol:

[Donkey]

Nottttt really, not that I know of. Not like Marquez or Salman Rushdie. (BTW, ever read Midnight's Children? Oh, how I loved that book!)

The older Irish writers, post independence from Britain, but prior to say, the sexual revolution (which hit Ireland much later than it did the rest of the world because of de Valera's all pervasive, institutionalized Catholic obsession) were preoccupied with the transitional problems of creating a new, semi-secular state, at least till the 90's; with the land itself, what had been lost and what was left due to the shadow of the famine and political divisions; and with the now voluntary, but still disruptive wave of emigration, especially to North America, that started probably in the 60's, I'm guessing. (Brian Moore actually lives in Canada now, I think. And Kenneally, I think his name is, the Irish-Australian author of Schindler's List.) The more current authors write about those who stayed on through the economically and politically desperate times and made it through to the Celtic Tiger economy of the 90's and *relative* peacetime. Most of these are about contemporary Irish life: life AFTER the iron fist of Catholicism, strange bedfellows, family crimes and secrets, crazies and spies, and now IMMIGRATION, the flooding of the country with non-Irish Catholics who not only don't speak Irish, but don't even speak feckin' English, and who do not LOOK atall atall like the red-headed, freckled face of pre European Union Ireland. Quite an upheaval. Most of these writers are just plain funny, ironic and dark. Doyle, McCabe, the Ripley Bogle books. (I forget the name of that author right this minute. Young guy who wrote two great novels, then left Northern Ireland and headed for the coast of France.)

Anyway, a long-winded answer to your original question, I know. Maybe the closest I can think of to any kind of magic realism would be Flann O'Brian, especially his At-Swim-Two Birds. It's certainly absurd enough. Maybe Suibhne could tell you more about it.....

Definitely Flann O'Brien stuff (not so much his Myles work). At Swim-Two-Birds is, I think, his best, but either The Third Policeman or The Dalkey Archive could also fit somewhat into magical realism. I'll do my best to give you a quick break-down of the first, but it would be difficult to give you an idea of how the latter two fit into that genre without some serious spoilers. I don't have a clue how I can go about this, but here you go...

At Swim-Two-Birds
As simply as it gets, and insofar as my memory serves me correctly here, this is a novel written by Flann O'Brien which is actually three (or four or five) novels intertwined into one (or rather one novel about a novel with three beginnings and also the novel as a whole including or not including the first layer or two): there is the story following the classic Irish hero translated "Finn Mac Cool" (Fionn mac Cumhaill) as he relates stories to an audience; the story following a Pooka (devil-type character) and his adventures with the Good Fairy (a good fairy); as well as what I would call the dominant story line in the sub-storyline, which focuses on a writer of Westerns who is writing a new novel, but thinks that there are far too many unique characters in existence to create any more, so he borrows characters from other stories... little does he know, when he's not actively engaged in writing his new novel, and thus redefining each character, they revert to their initial character-type.

If that isn't complicated enough, the Western writer keeps all of the stolen characters in his hotel room with him so that he can watch over them... things happen and the characters run into the Pooka, as well as colliding in some parts with Finn. Everything for all intents and purposes explodes all of the place and disrupts different layers (think Inception, but way better), and there is a particularly touching scene near the end featuring King Sweeney.

Naturally, the bits and pieces of these story lines are in fact read as the student novelist writes them and shows them to his peers, but there's also the overarching storyline of the novelist himself and his own adventures in (and mostly out of) school, in pubs, having it out with his family, and all sorts of things.

Then it all hits the fan and things get tragic pretty quickly. Perhaps the most entertaining book I've ever read.

If you're interested at all (and no one can possibly do justice to any of O'Brien's novels in a summary), the Everyman's Library published a nice and very inexpensive hardcover of his complete novels a few years ago. I think it's about $20 or so (CDN, probably cheaper USD) and they're very nice editions - along with the three I mentioned, the volume also has The Hard Life and The Poor Mouth, which are both worth reading in their own right, but have a slightly different pace to them. If it makes it any more interesting at all, somewhere in one of the novels, one of the characters tell the Pope to f off.

...otherwise there have been some half decent paperbacks published within the last few years as well of both At Swim-Two-Birds and The Third Policeman individually, but they're probably about $15 each, anyways.

HOWEVER,

I think the closest Irish novel I've read to "magical realism" is probably James Stephens' The Crock of Gold. I completely forgot about Stephens. His poetry is really good too (very lyrical) if you're into that sort of thing - most of the people I know who know of Stephens (which, admittedly, is probably 4 people) only really know of his poetry. Anyway, this novel is about two philosophers who meet two sister witches, and the witches marry the philosophers in order to make them miserable... then one philosopher effectively reaches enlightenment or something like that and disappears along with his wife: the bulk of the novel follows the remaining philosophers travels trying to solve a somewhat magical mystery.

Oh, not the mystery about the other philosopher, but about how and why his children were abducted by all the leprechauns. Or if they were abducted at all. Kinda.

So there you go.

Well then! Thank you both for such an in depth response. If I can get back into the swing of reading, I may just have to take a trip to the Emerald Isle.

[Suibhne]

This novel sounds like it is the penultimate example of postmodernist literature. :lol:

Well... not really. Postmodernism is something else, but I'll admit that I did a piss poor job of summarizing it - to do an adequate job would probably take longer than the actual book.

According to the wikipage for the book, it's classified as part of late-modernism. Flann O'Brien's use of language in the book is very particular and structured in a way that postmodern work is simply not.

Outside of a few choice examples, I'm inclined to say that postmodern literature is all-around awful; however, just because a writer is writing during a largely postmodern period does not make their work fall in with the general trend.

Again from the wikipage, Graham Greene says of the book,
It is in the line of Tristram Shandy and Ulysses: its amazing spirits do not disguise the seriousness of the attempt to present, simultaneously as it were, all the literary traditions of Ireland. [...] We have had books inside books before now, and characters who are given life outside their fiction, but O'Nolan takes Pirandello and Gide a long way further.

I don't know if you've read Tristram Shandy, Ulysses, Six Characters in Search of an Author, or Shoot! (for a very short list), but you probably should, if not. Even if you're not into fiction, good fiction will always speak in a relevant way to history - I would certainly argue that reading relevant fiction greatly enriches any attempt to understand history generally.

Let me look up and throw down a quote here, from probably the best example of a real academic I have ever come across: from Baruch Halpern's book The First Historians p. 7 of the introduction,

History, in sum, is a literally false but scientifically more or less useful useful coherence imposed by reason on reality.

A few pages earlier (p. xxxiii) in the preface,

History is not what happened. What happened, after all, was a sequential direction, velocity, and acceleration of particles. History is our way of organizing particle configurations into perceptible fictional blocks, such as individuals, groups, and the environment. In other words, historians deal with people, and with societies, as though these were the atoms of causation. The historian's job is to expound human causes to the reader - to organize a sequence of subatomic events, so that we can understand them in a human way. Indeed, our modes of perception, as Henri Bergson long ago observed, do not include events at the atomic, let alone subatomic, level, but evolved along a path that enabled us most efficiently to accumulate fuel and to propagate. So, like everything else human, and reliant on the macroscopic perceptions of humans, all history is flawed, in the sense that all is metaphoric. That no more stops it from being history than the fact that a doorway is merely a looser configuration of molecules than the abutting walls exchanging particles with it stops the doorway from being a doorway. The nature of our perceptions helps us get through the doorway without banging into the walls. History, likewise, is a form of human perception about the subatomic past. It is not accurate; like all memory, it is a useful form of organizing knowledge.

Granted, fiction does not give us quite the same experience as history, but it is without doubt another form of organizing knowledge in a human way. Even bad fiction fits the picture, but it does an awful job of imparting human experience (which is why you'll often hear people criticize terrible literature by saying that they cannot relate to the characters or something like that); good fiction, on the other hand, is arguably as important as history for understanding anything human.

I mean, you like what you like, that's cool, but there is so much fantastic literature out there it would be a shame to miss it - especially if you're interested in history and human experience.

Otherwise, if you want to stick to strictly history, check out Baruch Halpern's book, David's Secret Demons: Messiah, Murderer, Traitor, King. The First Historians is excellent history, but it's pretty intense.

How's that for a tangential rant.

In other news, along with the books I've already mentioned, I picked up Masculinity and Male Codes of Honor in Modern France... I thought it would be a cool book about dueling - the back cover description lends itself to that expectation. I was wrong. It's a contemporary examination of gender roles in the time period. FML, I really... really should have seen that coming.

[Suibhne]

Well then! Thank you both for such an in depth response. If I can get back into the swing of reading, I may just have to take a trip to the Emerald Isle.

Flann O'Brien is a great way to get back into reading - although I'd start with The Third Policeman if you go that route: it's a bit shorter, easier to pace yourself with, and will give you a good idea of whether or not you'll want to invest in At Swim-Two-Birds.

However, regardless what you choose (Irish or otherwise), let us know what you think!

I always have my nose in a bunch of books - sometimes too many, I think - so I'm almost always good for a recommendation if you're looking for something specific.

I'll leave you with some De Selby wisdom,

Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.

[Michael]

Well... not really. Postmodernism is something else, but I'll admit that I did a piss poor job of summarizing it - to do an adequate job would probably take longer than the actual book.

According to the wikipage for the book, it's classified as part of late-modernism. Flann O'Brien's use of language in the book is very particular and structured in a way that postmodern work is simply not.

Outside of a few choice examples, I'm inclined to say that postmodern literature is all-around awful; however, just because a writer is writing during a largely postmodern period does not make their work fall in with the general trend.
I suggested the post-modern label only because of the apparently convoluted narrative, with the author's act of writing being a part of the story. These seem to be common elements with post-modern lit. I confess I'm generally not really into putting such labels on novels or novelists, only that this one sounded like typical post-modernism.

I don't know if you've read Tristram Shandy, Ulysses, Six Characters in Search of an Author, or Shoot! (for a very short list), but you probably should, if not. Even if you're not into fiction, good fiction will always speak in a relevant way to history - I would certainly argue that reading relevant fiction greatly enriches any attempt to understand history generally.
Only Ulysses - and it was a tough slog and I didn't enjoy any of it.

That being said, I agree that history is little more than narrative and perspective. Indeed, I've long argued that point. E.H. Carr's essay (What is History?) introduced me to that idea many years ago.

Let me look up and throw down a quote here, from probably the best example of a real academic I have ever come across: from Baruch Halpern's book The First Historians p. 7 of the introduction,



A few pages earlier (p. xxxiii) in the preface,



Granted, fiction does not give us quite the same experience as history, but it is without doubt another form of organizing knowledge in a human way. Even bad fiction fits the picture, but it does an awful job of imparting human experience (which is why you'll often hear people criticize terrible literature by saying that they cannot relate to the characters or something like that); good fiction, on the other hand, is arguably as important as history for understanding anything human.

I mean, you like what you like, that's cool, but there is so much fantastic literature out there it would be a shame to miss it - especially if you're interested in history and human experience.
Perhaps I should rephrase my statement about fiction since you may have the wrong idea about it. I have read copious quantities of classic literature & fiction (mostly late 19th and early 20th century). I just have just reached an age in my life that I'm sick of reading fiction (because I'm sick of reading about people writing about themselves). I prefer to read non-fiction now because it is so much more interesting than fiction - indeed, in many cases, truth is stranger than fiction. And yes, I'm using the term 'truth' lightly. ;)

Otherwise, if you want to stick to strictly history, check out Baruch Halpern's book, David's Secret Demons: Messiah, Murderer, Traitor, King. The First Historians is excellent history, but it's pretty intense.

Are you trying to get me into biblical scholarship? :ummm:

That's a topic I tend to avoid like the plague! :lol:

How's that for a tangential rant.
Not bad, I'll give it an 7/10.

For a good rant, one has to show some anger at something though. You need to work on that part. ;)

In other news, along with the books I've already mentioned, I picked up Masculinity and Male Codes of Honor in Modern France... I thought it would be a cool book about dueling - the back cover description lends itself to that expectation. I was wrong. It's a contemporary examination of gender roles in the time period. FML, I really... really should have seen that coming.

Yes, I've been caught with similar books sounding very interesting and then one finds it filled with 21st century gender theory. :erm:

[Michael]

I just finished a very interesting little book called The Map That Changed the World, by Simon Winchester (in paperback). I got it as an xmas gift (probably because I'm known for having an interest in old maps and stuff like that).

It is about an 18th century British canal-engineer named William Smith, who has a passion for rocks, and how he created the world's first 'modern' geological map (and how everyone thought he was a fool and his map useless).

I definitely enjoyed the book - it is quite full of all sorts of interesting tidbits of information about 18th century England (and geology of course - and maps). Not exactly a page-turner, or likely to appeal to many others, but I figured I'd share it anyway. Well worth reading if you are interested in 18th century British/European history or geology. :)

[Michael]

I've also had fun reading a little book called Only in Canada, You Say, A Treasury of Canadian Language, by Katherine Barber. The author is billed as "Canada's Word Lady". Yet another xmas gift from family. It is a very small hardcover book, about the size of a paperback.

I'm sure Greendruid (or perhaps 'Sweeney') might find the subject equally amusing. The book is simply a listing of Canadian words and expressions (and what they mean). A lot of the really odd and funny terms are of Newfie origin, and quite a few other words/expressions surprised me (some of them are also rather obscure).

Anyway, the book also includes entries for terms like "Bush Party" or "Grad" which seem odd to claim some Canadian origin for such common slang terms.

Needless to say, there are no footnotes to trace the sourcing of any claim in the book and there are lots of terms. I noticed the entry for "Muskoka chair" doesn't mention that the chair is identical to an "Adirondack chair" (as it is known in the USA) which I thought was kind of lame to ignore.

Anyway, who knew that "Butter Tart" is a Canadian original? :shrug:

[Donkey]

I've also had fun reading a little book called Only in Canada, You Say, A Treasury of Canadian Language, by Katherine Barber. The author is billed as "Canada's Word Lady". Yet another xmas gift from family.

I'm sure Greendruid (or perhaps 'Sweeney') might find the subject equally amusing. The book is simply a listing of Canadian words and expressions (and what they mean). A lot of the really odd and funny terms are of Newfie origin, and quite a few other words/expressions surprised me (some of them are also rather obscure).

Anyway, the book also includes entries for terms like "Bush Party" or "Grad" which seem odd to claim some Canadian origin for such common slang terms.

Needless to say, there are no footnotes to trace the sourcing of any claim in the book and there are lots of terms. I noticed the entry for "Muskoka chair" doesn't mention that the chair is identical to an "Adirondack chair" (as it is known in the USA) which I thought was kind of lame to ignore.

Anyway, who knew that "Butter Tart" is a Canadian original? :shrug:

Heh. I know I have a couple of sayings that are definitely not American from my mom.

[Suibhne]

Only Ulysses - and it was a tough slog and I didn't enjoy any of it.

That's definitely fair, Joyce isn't for everyone. I wouldn't have included it but that Greene did in the quote.

Perhaps I should rephrase my statement about fiction since you may have the wrong idea about it. I have read copious quantities of classic literature & fiction (mostly late 19th and early 20th century). I just have just reached an age in my life that I'm sick of reading fiction (because I'm sick of reading about people writing about themselves). I prefer to read non-fiction now because it is so much more interesting than fiction - indeed, in many cases, truth is stranger than fiction. And yes, I'm using the term 'truth' lightly. ;)

Well, I'm still for all intents and purposes a kid, so I'm not there yet - if I ever will be, I can't imagine getting bored with fiction right now.

Are you trying to get me into biblical scholarship? :ummm:

That's a topic I tend to avoid like the plague! :lol:

Nah, just the best (and most recent) example of really good history that I know. I didn't really think about it being biblical history much... that probably isn't everyone's cup of tea. I do think the the Bible is one of a few books everyone should read in their lifetime, but not for its potential historical content so much as its fundamental role in western culture.

Not bad, I'll give it an 7/10.

For a good rant, one has to show some anger at something though. You need to work on that part. ;)

I'll take it. Not likely I'll be getting angry - and definitely not on here.


I've also had fun reading a little book called Only in Canada, You Say, A Treasury of Canadian Language, by Katherine Barber. The author is billed as "Canada's Word Lady". Yet another xmas gift from family. It is a very small hardcover book, about the size of a paperback.

I'm sure Greendruid (or perhaps 'Sweeney') might find the subject equally amusing. The book is simply a listing of Canadian words and expressions (and what they mean). A lot of the really odd and funny terms are of Newfie origin, and quite a few other words/expressions surprised me (some of them are also rather obscure).

Good 'ol Newfies. I'll keep this one in mind.

[Greendruid]

I just finished a very interesting little book called The Map That Changed the World, by Simon Winchester (in paperback). I got it as an xmas gift (probably because I'm known for having an interest in old maps and stuff like that).

It is about an 18th century British canal-engineer named William Smith, who has a passion for rocks, and how he created the world's first 'modern' geological map (and how everyone thought he was a fool and his map useless).

I definitely enjoyed the book - it is quite full of all sorts of interesting tidbits of information about 18th century England (and geology of course - and maps). Not exactly a page-turner, or likely to appeal to many others, but I figured I'd share it anyway. Well worth reading if you are interested in 18th century British/European history or geology. :)

Looks interesting. Smith and his ilk were responsible for moving the ideas forward that in fact the earth is very much older than anyone at the time thought. People gasped when such fellows suggested that 75,000 years or 100,000 years was possible and even necessary to make the changes seen in the geological record at the time. This was an essential piece to pursue for science and the timing was then made right by the mid-19th century for Darwin to propose his idea "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection". If it wasn't for people like Smith, we would have waited a very long time to see science begin to replace religion as the source of authority about what is knowable about the universe.

[Greendruid]

I've also had fun reading a little book called Only in Canada, You Say, A Treasury of Canadian Language, by Katherine Barber. The author is billed as "Canada's Word Lady". Yet another xmas gift from family. It is a very small hardcover book, about the size of a paperback.

I'm sure Greendruid (or perhaps 'Sweeney') might find the subject equally amusing. The book is simply a listing of Canadian words and expressions (and what they mean). A lot of the really odd and funny terms are of Newfie origin, and quite a few other words/expressions surprised me (some of them are also rather obscure).

Anyway, the book also includes entries for terms like "Bush Party" or "Grad" which seem odd to claim some Canadian origin for such common slang terms.

Needless to say, there are no footnotes to trace the sourcing of any claim in the book and there are lots of terms. I noticed the entry for "Muskoka chair" doesn't mention that the chair is identical to an "Adirondack chair" (as it is known in the USA) which I thought was kind of lame to ignore.

Anyway, who knew that "Butter Tart" is a Canadian original? :shrug:

Looks interesting. My friend Saul's parents were the directors of those Red Rose Tea commercials that the book title is referencing. Classic TV ad from the 70s and 80s up here.

[The Drunk Girl]

I finally gave in and read The Hunger Games series. Much to my surprise I thoroughly enjoyed them. I read the trilogy in about four days; the last one I finished the same day I bought it.

[Michael]

I finally gave in and read The Hunger Games series. Much to my surprise I thoroughly enjoyed them. I read the trilogy in about four days; the last one I finished the same day I bought it.

There are two girls at my office that would pretty much say the same (read the series in record time).

[shekib82]

Here are the books I am currently reading:

- the plight of reason in Islam, also known as the crisis of mind in Islam: this is a book by slain Lebanese Shia apostate Mustafa Jeha. In it he argues that Mohammad suffered from several psychiatric issues and that Islam was an all around bad religion.

- code complete: this is one of the best books on software engineering. I am reading this to improve my work skills.

- mathematician's delight: this is a book on mathematics written in the 50 for the layman. It is somewhat interesting resd, although I am wel versed in the material.

- the quest by Daniel yerin: I finally decided to pick up this book ( or Ebook in this case). So far it is going on about the historic of oil in post soveit republics.

- airframe by the late Michael crichton: I find this book interesting read as a book on the engineering of quality assurance in planes. I would recommend it for a technical person. It isn't action filled like some other Crichton books.

-the girl who played with fire: I put this in the list as I have started reading it a few months ago. I have yet to pick it up again.

[Donkey]

Currently reading Lost Girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Girls).

It is basically erotica. Very graphic, and very good.

[Non Sequitur]

Currently reading Lost Girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Girls).

It is basically erotica. Very graphic, and very good.

the Wikipedia description makes it sound a little too much for me...

[The Drunk Girl]

Currently, I am reading The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon. It's about an autistic boy who finds his neighbor's dog murdered. He decides to do some detective work and in doing this unravels some mysteries within his own life. Haddon does a fantastic job at writing with a look into autism, as it is the boy who is telling the story.

[dilettante]

Currently, I am reading The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon. It's about an autistic boy who finds his neighbor's dog murdered. He decides to do some detective work and in doing this unravels some mysteries within his own life. Haddon does a fantastic job at writing with a look into autism, as it is the boy who is telling the story.

That is an excellent book! :thumbsup:

[shekib82]

That is an excellent book! :thumbsup:

i read that one too. but i wouldn't say that it is an excellent book.

[Donkey]

the Wikipedia description makes it sound a little too much for me...

I don't think it would be everyone's cup of tea.

[The Drunk Girl]

That is an excellent book! :thumbsup:

:)

A woman at a local bookstore recommended it. Over the weekend, TDGuy and I went to a half-priced bookstore in Lexington so I was on the hunt for the book. There was one copy and another A Spot of Brother (my damn phone won't let me underline it this time:sneaky: ). I picked it up, too. You read that one?

[dilettante]

:)

A woman at a local bookstore recommended it. Over the weekend, TDGuy and I went to a half-priced bookstore in Lexington so I was on the hunt for the book. There was one copy and another A Spot of Brother (my damn phone won't let me underline it this time:sneaky: ). I picked it up, too. You read that one?

No, just the dog one. I picked it up randomly in the bookstore because I thought the title was funny and immediately got hooked. The perspective, writing style and mathiness of it was just too intriguing.

[Suibhne]

No, just the dog one. I picked it up randomly in the bookstore because I thought the title was funny and immediately got hooked. The perspective, writing style and mathiness of it was just too intriguing.

That's the same reason I initially picked up the Portuguese Irregular Verbs trilogy (along with The Finer Points of Sausage Dogs and At the Villa of Reduced Circumstances), which are all fantastically entertaining.

[Donkey]

[ /u] to finish your formatting. :)

[pramjockey]

[ /u] to finish your formatting. :)

Picked up Dan Simmons' latest book - Drood while I was in Oregon. Hardbound first edition for like $6. So far it's interesting; worth what I paid for it.

[Michael]

That's the same reason I initially picked up the Portuguese Irregular Verbs trilogy ... which are all fantastically entertaining.

I find it hard to believe that title could be described as "fantastically entertaining". :shrug:

[Suibhne]

I find it hard to believe that title could be described as "fantastically entertaining". :shrug:

You'd be wrong! The series is actually about the ridiculous misadventures of a professor specializing in Portuguese irregular verbs - as well as two other linguists he works with. I know it sounds far from entertaining, but they're all very funny. What really caught my eye is the first book being followed by, The Finer Points of Sausage Dogs. Silly.

They may be better known as Alexander McCall Smith's 2 1/2 Pillars of Wisdom (the name of the trilogy printed in one volume).


Also, thanks for the code fix. I usually double-check before posting, but I was rushing.