Brazil overtakes UK as sixth biggest economy

[Americano]

Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078596/Brazil-overtakes-UK-sixth-biggest-economy-Britain-falls-South-American-nation-time.html)

New Ranking:

US
China
Japan
Germany
France
Brazil
UK

Abundant and marketable natural resources are the basis of Brazil's wealth, but it also has significant, established industrial capacity which is attracting global investment due to favorable labor cost and stable government.

I don't think anyone can deny contemporary economic power facilitated by natural resources in demand.

[pramjockey]

The problem with exploitation of natural resources as Brazil has been doing, though, is that they will eventually run out.

Then what?

[Donkey]

The problem with exploitation of natural resources as Brazil has been doing, though, is that they will eventually run out.

Then what?

Not to mention the raging battle (that is becoming common place in Latin America) between indigenous communities seeking to re-establish some level of sovereignty and the (often foreign controlled) resource extractors.

[The Drunk Guy]

Not to mention the raging battle (that is becoming common place in Latin America) between indigenous communities seeking to re-establish some level of sovereignty and the (often foreign controlled) resource extractors.
Cowboys and indians. No one stops industry!

[Americano]

The problem with exploitation of natural resources as Brazil has been doing, though, is that they will eventually run out.

Like much of Europe and the US? All natural resources are finite. I haven't seen projections on anything other than oil and and some metals. Brazil is quite the entrepreneur in using less fortunate neighboring countries for supplying cheap hydroelectric power so I'd think carefully planned specialty industrial expansion should be their ultimate goal, much the same path taken by post WW2 Germany.

Then what?

Long term your guess is as good as mine. I look at most situations from a business plan perspective; best, probable and worst case scenarios. Brazil will have a decent run of prosperity, at least a decade, possibly longer dependent on amount of obtainable natural resources and demand, then we'll see how astute their long-term planning was.

[Americano]

Not to mention the raging battle (that is becoming common place in Latin America) between indigenous communities seeking to re-establish some level of sovereignty and the (often foreign controlled) resource extractors.

Historically, society seems to run against indigent desires. Spain, England, Holland, the US and now global interests have all used Latin America for purposes of accumulating wealth. Brazil just happens to be a local player.

[Americano]

Cowboys and indians. No one stops industry!

History is crowded with idealistic martyrs. It started way before industry was a factor, the usual drill of people seeking to increase sovereign and personal wealth.

[Donkey]

Historically, society seems to run against indigent desires. Spain, England, Holland, the US and now global interests have all used Latin America for purposes of accumulating wealth. Brazil just happens to be a local player.

I said indigenous not indigent, but given your general economic and social attitude, I wouldn't be surprised to see you confuse the terms. :shrug:

[Americano]

I said indigenous not indigent, but given your general economic and social attitude, I wouldn't be surprised to see you confuse the terms. :shrug:

Sorry for the error. When it comes to much of Latin America there's not a lot of difference.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

The problem with exploitation of natural resources as Brazil has been doing, though, is that they will eventually run out.

Then what?
I know that oil runs out, but I can't see how nuts and coffee will run out? Please explain, old boy.

[Donkey]

I know that oil runs out, but I can't see how nuts and coffee will run out? Please explain, old boy.

Depends entirely on how it is cultivated. You wouldn't think corn runs out, but I suspect we'll face a serious crisis in the midwest in the next few years.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Depends entirely on how it is cultivated. You wouldn't think corn runs out, but I suspect we'll face a serious crisis in the midwest in the next few years.
Well, I hope the Brazilians deploy long-term thinking in their cultivation. South America needs a strong nation to represent it.

[pramjockey]

I know that oil runs out, but I can't see how nuts and coffee will run out? Please explain, old boy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13449792

Deforesting to produce soybeans and beef. The deforested land is very poor - the nutrients were held in the trees.

Beyond that, there are the global effects of destroying all that forest land.

[Donkey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13449792

Deforesting to produce soybeans and beef. The deforested land is very poor - the nutrients were held in the trees.

Beyond that, there are the global effects of destroying all that forest land.

The problem is, capitalists demand rapid growth and quick return on their investment. There is no problem for them in walking away from a desert as long as they got their return.

Survival demands sustainability, but the capitalist system is too blind to realize that sooner or later you run out of places to rape.

[pramjockey]

The problem is, capitalists demand rapid growth and quick return on their investment. There is no problem for them in walking away from a desert as long as they got their return.

Survival demands sustainability, but the capitalist system is too blind to realize that sooner or later you run out of places to rape.

With some capitalist systems.

It doesn't have to be all. Not all competition is bad.

[Americano]

The problem is, capitalists demand rapid growth and quick return on their investment. There is no problem for them in walking away from a desert as long as they got their return.

Survival demands sustainability, but the capitalist system is too blind to realize that sooner or later you run out of places to rape.

Blind, no, not caring, yes.

[Donkey]

With some capitalist systems.

It doesn't have to be all. Not all competition is bad.
Competition =! capitalism.
Blind, no, not caring, yes.
Give 'em a long enough rope...

[Americano]

With some capitalist systems.

It doesn't have to be all. Not all competition is bad.

To those who advocate utopia, there should be no competition as all are created equal. I remember reading similar statements in many science fiction offerings, usually spoken by someone about to be unwillingly transferred to an unexplored galaxy.

[Americano]

Competition =! capitalism.

Give 'em a long enough rope...

And what happens? They garner the rope supply?

[Donkey]

To those who advocate utopia, there should be no competition as all are created equal. I remember reading similar statements in many science fiction offerings, usually spoken by someone about to be unwillingly transferred to an unexplored galaxy.

Utterly lacking in any relevance whatsoever.

[Donkey]

And what happens? They garner the rope supply?

They hang themselves.

Of course, a few societal rapists will get away with it and be able to live out their days on the spoils of their plunder, but systematically speaking, it's suicidal.

What happens when all the fields are deserts, all the mountain-tops are gone, the oil is drained from the earth, and the forests are barren wastelands? Sure the people who DID it will be dead and gone, but only a sociopath would consider that sort of behavior to be acceptable.

[Americano]

Utterly lacking in any relevance whatsoever.

In your opinion. You curse every facet of capitalism while profiting from it yet offer no realistic alternative in contemporary society.

[Americano]

They hang themselves.

Of course, a few societal rapists will get away with it and be able to live out their days on the spoils of their plunder, but systematically speaking, it's suicidal.

What happens when all the fields are deserts, all the mountain-tops are gone, the oil is drained from the earth, and the forests are barren wastelands? Sure the people who DID it will be dead and gone, but only a sociopath would consider that sort of behavior to be acceptable.

So? What does that change?

[Donkey]

In your opinion. You curse every facet of capitalism while profiting from it yet offer no realistic alternative in contemporary society.
Well that's a wild pack of lies.

Ah well. I'm done feeding trolls for the time being.
So? What does that change?

If you're comfortable deliberately and knowingly turning the world into a barren desert that's on you.

[Americano]

Well that's a wild pack of lies.

Ah well. I'm done feeding trolls for the time being.

Pack of lies? You're pridefully employed in an industry dependent on capitalism and enjoy the fruits of capitalism while offering nothing but empty words and protest an existing system without any viable plan for change. I've heard those exact same words, viewed those same protests with only the signs updated and after several decades seen no change. Where's the action?

If you're comfortable deliberately and knowingly turning the world into a barren desert that's on you.

No guilt for those allowing it to happen?

[Donkey]

Pack of lies? You're pridefully employed in an industry dependent on capitalism and enjoy the fruits of capitalism while offering nothing but empty words and protest an existing system without any viable plan for change. I've heard those exact same words, viewed those same protests with only the signs updated and after several decades seen no change. Where's the action?



No guilt for those allowing it to happen?

Cool story bro. :rolleyes:

[pramjockey]

Competition =! capitalism.


And maybe it's my definitions that are lacking (it wouldn't be the first time).

[Donkey]

And maybe it's my definitions that are lacking (it wouldn't be the first time).

I wouldn't say lacking. Different, from mine, perhaps.

[Michael]

Competition =! capitalism.

True enough that competition itself isn't sufficient to create or define capitalism, but competition is a necessary component of capitalism since competition is necessary and critical to market theory and capitalism is entirely predicated upon market theory.

Bottom line is that if there is no competition, there is no capitalism either - it becomes 'crony capitalism' at best, or just pure corruption.

[Donkey]

True enough that competition itself isn't sufficient to create or define capitalism, but competition is a necessary component of capitalism since competition is necessary and critical to market theory and capitalism is entirely predicated upon market theory.

Bottom line is that if there is no competition, there is no capitalism either - it becomes 'crony capitalism' at best, or just pure corruption.

I.e. the realistic result.