Worried Celebration

[MeMyselfAndI]

Here in Russia, tommorrow, on October 24th, is Specnaz Day. The country will celebrate her Special Purpose Forces, her Red Berets
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http://www.vvmvd.ru/netcat_files/346/261/h_c7232de323c7fba8815a4842673b770f

On TV the reporter was talking to a Specnaz officer, and asked him where do Specnaz warriors go after they finish their service. He answered it differs: a small minority go on to serve elsewhere in the world, French Foreign Legion being the most popular destination. Others work in private security firms. But majority, and this is the issue, enter the world of organised crime.

Mafia bosses in Russia today no longer value the traditional byki, "bulls", basic street thugs
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These are cheap and expendable.

Today, OPGs (Organised Crime Groups) look for profi, "professionals", men with sophisticated training and deadly skills. Many gangs actually pay veterans organisations of Specnaz, Paratroopers and Marines, for their employment offices to arrange for men to contact them for jobs. And the mafia pays much more then either private security agencies or Sarkozy. Too many former members of elite forces today become hired asssisins and hitmen, or, on the other hand, trusted bodyguards of pakhans (crime lords, Godfathers), protecting them from those like themselves, only working for their boss's rivals.

Something must be done...

[Donkey]

Something must be done...

Indeed. Perhaps start with ending the government sponsored militarization of your society.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Indeed. Perhaps start with ending the government sponsored militarization of your society.
I agree.

And if the words 'Russia has always been like this' are marching confidently in the direction of this conversation, let me just say that...

...there are sensible traditions and there are stupid traditions, and it's the existance of the 2nd category, which Russians seem to have trouble recognising.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Indeed. Perhaps start with ending the government sponsored militarization of your society.

I agree.

And if the words 'Russia has always been like this' are marching confidently in the direction of this conversation, let me just say that...

...there are sensible traditions and there are stupid traditions, and it's the existance of the 2nd category, which Russians seem to have trouble recognising.

I do not think this has to do with militarization. Though, I agree, it is somewhat concerning. Since Putin took power, in 2000, good old Soviet Combat Preparation classes have been brought back in Russian schools.
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These are for Class 7 and up.

There are also Military-Patriotic clubs in many schools, for smaller children
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[MeMyselfAndI]

I do see a purpose in that though: it teaches the children discipline, strengh, and patriotism. Also, there are the lessons of World War II, when many boys (and some girls) from schools, from 9th, 10th and 11th classes volunteered to the front. My Grandfather was two months away from 16, when he ended up in Stalingrad. If Russia is ever invaded and our young want to fight, like in the 40s, they may as well have the skills to do so :) And, anyway, as much as you, Nick, do not want me to phrase it that way, Russia has always been a land of warriors.
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We, as a nation, have always lived by the sword. Not just ethnic Russians, but all the peoples that make up Russia.

Just the way it is
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It is what distinguishes us from, say, Polish (and why Russia is 100 times the size of Poland lol)

No, militarization is not the problem. The problem is lack of jobs. And education. In Soviet times, a young man served in the military, and then he could go to university for free, earn a degree in whatever he liked, and find a job in that specialty. In fact, he did not even have to "find", he went to a special office and was assigned a job. Today, that is no longer so... Higher education is expensive. And aside from either private security or organized crime, there is little employment for men with such skills.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

MeMyselfandI, I suppose it is difficult to argue that there is a natural inclination for men to fight. To win against the other, before the other wins against oneself.

And since humans and other animals always want more than they've got, there will always be a reason to fight.

It can seem a bit depressing sometimes, but I suppose life is a trial, and overcoming these depressing things makes us stronger.

[Donkey]

MeMyselfandI, I suppose it is difficult to argue that there is a natural inclination for men to fight. To win against the other, before the other wins against oneself.

And since humans and other animals always want more than they've got, there will always be a reason to fight.

It can seem a bit depressing sometimes, but I suppose life is a trial, and overcoming these depressing things makes us stronger.

I've never been in a fight.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I've never been in a fight.
I greatly respect that.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

It is what distinguishes us from, say, Polish (and why Russia is 100 times the size of Poland lol)


And why is Russia 100 times bigger than Sweden? For the same reason?
Poland is now part of the European Union - you know, that Union that millions and millions of Russians are desperate to live in, to get out of Putin's clutches.

[Americano]

And why is Russia 100 times bigger than Sweden? For the same reason?
Poland is now part of the European Union - you know, that Union that millions and millions of Russians are desperate to live in, to get out of Putin's clutches.

There are millions of dissatisfied people in most countries. They talk big but when push comes to shove seldom facilitate any internal changes other than cosmetic or leave their native country.

I don't think I'd be that eager to join the EU. So many members without abundant/marketable natural resources are nearing the end of of their post-ww2 fling with socialism that perhaps draconian austerity due to overwhelming debt is inevitable. Why would Russians want to help bail them out? Most will need Russian natural gas, oil and forest products regardless of their fiscal circumstances. Even China has remained silent to French pleas for EU financial assistance.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

If people want to leave the country, the highly-paid government should try to change that, by improving conditions.

So-far Putin has done an abysmal job.

[Americano]

If people want to leave the country, the highly-paid government should try to change that, by improving conditions.

So-far Putin has done an abysmal job.

Russia, like the US, has elections. The people get exactly what they vote for, no more, no less. The discontented, other than victims of racism, most often seek conditions with little to no reality when considering their education, skill sets, idealistic ideology or economic circumstances.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Russia, like the US, has elections. The people get exactly what they vote for, no more, no less. The discontented, other than victims of racism, most often seek conditions with little to no reality when considering their education, skill sets, idealistic ideology or economic circumstances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15045816
Putin controls the entire political system.
The Russian elections are a sham.

There is little doubt that Vladimir Putin will win next year's presidential poll. Not only is he the most popular politician in Russia, he also controls the entire political system, one which keeps any potential rivals from appearing and attracting support.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15045816

[Americano]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15045816
Putin controls the entire political system.
The Russian elections are a sham.

There is little doubt that Vladimir Putin will win next year's presidential poll. Not only is he the most popular politician in Russia, he also controls the entire political system, one which keeps any potential rivals from appearing and attracting support.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15045816

You speak as if political systems are benevolent in their concern for the citizenry. In the US our political systems lets us choose from one of two political leaders every four years. Due to rampant political corruption in our system the two are virtually interchangeable.

[Donkey]

Russia, like the US, has elections. The people get exactly what they vote for, no more, no less. The discontented, other than victims of racism, most often seek conditions with little to no reality when considering their education, skill sets, idealistic ideology or economic circumstances.

To be fair, Russia is probably one of the least democratic countries who pretend to the term.

I would probably classify it as less democratic than, say, Iran.

[MeMyselfAndI]

To be fair, Russia is probably one of the least democratic countries who pretend to the term.

I would probably classify it as less democratic than, say, Iran.

No. In Iran, they shoot opposition demonstrators. Here, they would only beat them up.

[Americano]

No. In Iran, they shoot opposition demonstrators. Here, they would only beat them up.

In the US we arrest and jail them. That gives them a criminal record creating difficulty for employment, financial dealings and other basics.