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MeMyselfAndI
Aug 20th 2011, 06:34 PM
At Nizhny Novgorod officials are suing 5-month old twins

They are demanding, that the little ones be evicted from an apartment in the center of the city.

Ksenia PATRUSHEVA (http://kp.ru/daily/column/3552/) — 19.05.2011

The very old, crumbling two-floor ruin on Studenaya street, which is hard to even call a building anymore, has been assigned for demolition. For several years, local officials worked to relocate its residents, some by voluntary agreement, others - through the court. It seemed like they had managed to move out almost all.

But now that the deadline for demolition is approaching, in an empty building, considered to no longer be safe to inhabit, suddenly, they find an apartment has been written off to two children of breastfeeding age. The officials could not believe their eyes: twins Vladimir and Nadezhda Putrishevich, who are both less than half a year old, are nonetheless fully «registered» and apparently legally reside in the communal apartment.

It was a unique case. The couple Putrishevich Путришевичей and their then five children at the end of last year were moved from the communal apartment to another part of the city, into a new apartment on Tsvetochnaya street. The Putrishevichs resisted this for a long time, becuase they thought: as a large family they deserve and need more space, then the 20 square meter room they were given.
http://kp.ru/f/4/image/84/26/412684.jpg

Nonetheless, the court decided: they must leave the old apartment. The family was un-registered from the communal apartment, but chose to stay in their old home to the end, until the demolition.

Richt after the court's decision, the mother, Vera Putrishevich, who was pregnant at the time, gave birth to twins. After she was out of the birth clinic, Vera, a simple woman, went to the passport office, to register her new children, so she could recieve free baby food at the milk kitchen. Over there, they knew nothing of the current situation with the building, and so registered the twins at the uninhabitable communal.

http://kp.ru/f/4/image/86/26/412686.jpg
Putrishvich's old home

- Later, members of the city administration sent requests to the judge, asked him to find out how this all happened, - tells head of the household Valeriy. – The judge explained, taht at the time of the verdict, there were no twins. But now - there are... And he made a truly genious decision: the twins are of breastfeeding age, meaning they feed off their mother's breast. Therefore, so as not to interfere with the feeding process, the parents should live with the babies, at the communal. So, we can stay with them, for now.

The officials then launched another lawsuit… against the 5-month old twins.

- The officials do not see anything criminal in moving a family of nine unto 20 square meters. That is, about 2 meters plus per person. We'd be sleeping on top of each other, - says Vera shaking her head, while wrapping up the twins: Nadia – in pink, Vova – in blue.

The charming babies stare wonderinly at our camera. The boy smiles widely with his toothless for now mouth. Dad is showing us the court papers, and Nadia, tries to grab the legal claim file against herself.The twins cannot possibly know, that, just after being born, they've already been pulled under the wheels of our country's grand and grotesque bureucratic system...

Under the law, this family should get 13 square meters of living space per person.



http://kp.ru/daily/25688/892595/

I did not translate the entire article, too long. But this is not a only case, many like that in this country.

The comment section is interesting... Some people are voicing their support for the Putrishevich family; while others are angry that, apparently, poor couples "breed poverty": have many children and then expect the state and other citizens to help support them...

Americano
Aug 20th 2011, 07:29 PM
She'd do well as a US contingency lawyer.

Michael
Aug 21st 2011, 09:58 AM
It sounds exactly like the bureaucratic nightmare I've always figured Soviet life was all about. The idea that each person or family has to have their apartment assigned to them by the government is insane to begin with.

MeMyselfAndI
Aug 21st 2011, 07:00 PM
She'd do well as a US contingency lawyer.

Ksenia Patrusheva? I suppose. Well, she is a lawyer, by education, has a degree in Justice. She is a family activist. Member of "Mothers of Russia". Was in the Duma's committee on family matters.

It sounds exactly like the bureaucratic nightmare I've always figured Soviet life was all about. The idea that each person or family has to have their apartment assigned to them by the government is insane to begin with.

Well, no, not each. Only the poor. If one is poor enough, one is supposed to get free living space. But often enough, like in this case, it is not exactly sufficient.

Donkey
Aug 23rd 2011, 11:58 PM
Are you sure they aren't being sued for Identity theft? (http://www.discussionworldforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2475)

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 03:00 AM
A state should be run like a boarding-school.

Each individual should be provided with a bedroom.

Fruit should be compulsory eating.

Sport should be compulsory.

Everyone should have access to a library, in which were rooms for public discussion.

Bullying should be severely punished.

Rudeness should be severely punished.

A simple recipe to paradise.

Donkey
Aug 24th 2011, 09:14 AM
A state should be run like a boarding-school.

Each individual should be provided with a bedroom.

Fruit should be compulsory eating.

Sport should be compulsory.

Everyone should have access to a library, in which were rooms for public discussion.

Bullying should be severely punished.

Rudeness should be severely punished.

A simple recipe to paradise.

You're kidding, right?

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 09:49 AM
You're kidding, right?
Not really.
There'd be no homelessness, and as soon as homelessness was eradicated, the fear of homelessness would be eradicated. And once that fear was eradicated, people would be able to spread their wings and reach their full potential, without the constant fear factor hamstringing them.

A roof over one's head is something you have to have.
That's why the state should guarantee it.
The state guarantees criminals a roof over their heads, and so it should also guarantee its law-abiding citizens a roof over their heads.

Don't get me wrong, it should be a very spartan dwelling (otherwise there'd be little point in working), and that's why I suggest a bed room.

Donkey
Aug 24th 2011, 12:16 PM
Not really.
There'd be no homelessness, and as soon as homelessness was eradicated, the fear of homelessness would be eradicated. And once that fear was eradicated, people would be able to spread their wings and reach their full potential, without the constant fear factor hamstringing them.

A roof over one's head is something you have to have.
That's why the state should guarantee it.
The state guarantees criminals a roof over their heads, and so it should also guarantee its law-abiding citizens a roof over their heads.

Don't get me wrong, it should be a very spartan dwelling (otherwise there'd be little point in working), and that's why I suggest a bed room.
It was more the rest of your post that I was taking issue with than the housing.

MeMyselfAndI
Aug 24th 2011, 12:30 PM
Are you sure they aren't being sued for Identity theft? (http://www.discussionworldforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2475)

:lol: Perhaps.

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 01:53 PM
Donkey, what don't you like about the following...?

A state should be run like a boarding-school.

Each individual should be provided with a bedroom.

Fruit should be compulsory eating.

Sport should be compulsory.

Everyone should have access to a library, in which were rooms for public discussion.

Bullying should be severely punished.

Rudeness should be severely punished.

A simple recipe to paradise.

Donkey
Aug 24th 2011, 01:54 PM
Donkey, what don't you like about the following...?

A state should be run like a boarding-school.

Fruit should be compulsory eating.

Sport should be compulsory.

Rudeness should be severely punished.

A simple recipe to paradise.

This.

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 01:55 PM
This.
I can't see why.

Non-fruit eaters would discover the joys of health.
Lethargic couch potatoes would discover the joys of excercise.
Politeness would reign supreme.
Bullying would be greatly reduced.

Donkey
Aug 24th 2011, 01:57 PM
I can't see why.

Because I'm not a fascist.

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 01:58 PM
Because I'm not a fascist.
Neither am I.
Do fascists advocate discussion rooms?

MeMyselfAndI
Aug 24th 2011, 02:15 PM
Because I'm not a fascist.

Actually, that vision sounds more Stalinist than fascist.

The 'no swearing, no fighting, eat healthy food and participate in sports' stuff, that's the Soviet Pioneers, perfect description
http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/83/Sov-pioneer-tajikistan.jpg

Not a bad idea, as a whole, at that. Youth back then was kept busy, at least, and disciplined. I was a Pioneer once. Everyone born before 1984 was (you joined at 7 years old and by 1991 of course there was no Soviet Union anymore, so no more Pioneers... :mad:). Certainly we laerned many useful things in Pioneer camps: survival in the wilderness, true friendship. Today's Youth Camps are not the same. We peeled and cut our own potatos. Now, they all have bloody cooks... Pathetic, really :lol:

Those Pioneer camps are one of the things modern Russians miss from those days...
http://estb.msn.com/i/56/4BBDB1B87F97B0C5ACDD966AF3ED4C.jpg

That's why the Communist Party has brought back the Pioneer program now, to counter Putin's Nashi
http://kprf-irkutsk.ru/uploaded/DSC_5037.jpg
CPRF Pioneers at a camp in Irkutsk. Parents were thrilled when this was announced. 50 camps have been reopened around teh country and are already filled to capacity :)

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 24th 2011, 02:17 PM
The state would pay for the fruit.
And if they didn't eat the fruit they'd be fined, not jailed.
What is wrong with that???
We all know that it would be kindness, to the baffoons who refuse to eat fruit.

Michael
Aug 24th 2011, 07:04 PM
Actually, that vision sounds more Stalinist than fascist.

The 'no swearing, no fighting, eat healthy food and participate in sports' stuff, that's the Soviet Pioneers, perfect description

...

Not a bad idea, as a whole, at that. Youth back then was kept busy, at least, and disciplined. I was a Pioneer once. Everyone born before 1984 was (you joined at 7 years old and by 1991 of course there was no Soviet Union anymore, so no more Pioneers... :mad:). Certainly we laerned many useful things in Pioneer camps: survival in the wilderness, true friendship. Today's Youth Camps are not the same. We peeled and cut our own potatos. Now, they all have bloody cooks... Pathetic, really :lol:

Those Pioneer camps are one of the things modern Russians miss from those days...
...
That's why the Communist Party has brought back the Pioneer program now, to counter Putin's Nashi
...
CPRF Pioneers at a camp in Irkutsk. Parents were thrilled when this was announced. 50 camps have been reopened around teh country and are already filled to capacity :)
It is our experience in the west that these types of institutions tend to be horrific abusers of children (physical, emotional and sexual abuse).

Whenever you force large numbers of children into a system that is not rigorously monitored by independent agencies, you will have big problems.

It is only a matter of years before the info about the abuse comes out. Until then, everyone denies it and praises the institution. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :shrug:

MeMyselfAndI
Aug 25th 2011, 12:37 AM
It is our experience in the west that these types of institutions tend to be horrific abusers of children (physical, emotional and sexual abuse).

Whenever you force large numbers of children into a system that is not rigorously monitored by independent agencies, you will have big problems.

It is only a matter of years before the info about the abuse comes out. Until then, everyone denies it and praises the institution. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

No! Not true at all! There was no abuse at pioneer camps... I remember my own like it was yesterday. Amazing place. The things we learned there...

Patriotism
http://savok.name/uploads/pionery/15.jpg
http://nakhaba11.ucoz.ru/17.jpg

Teamwork
http://nakhaba11.ucoz.ru/13.jpg

A thirst for knowledge
http://nakhaba11.ucoz.ru/22.jpg
http://nakhaba11.ucoz.ru/24.jpg
http://nakhaba11.ucoz.ru/6.jpg

You can say what you want, but the truth is, the Communists knew how to work with youth. Back then, you would not see young people aimlessly wondering the streets. We were always busy, we, Pioneers, always had something to do. Gorbachev damaged that system, that is one of the reasons USSR itself disintegrated eventually. The government under Gorby had yilded the control it had on youth through the Pioneers and the Komsomol... But when it was still in its power... You ahve no idea. We felt we were a part of something
http://elefantmuller.users.photofile.ru/photo/elefantmuller/96571350/xlarge/122796322.jpg
Something big and great and mighty. It felt good.

We felt like we had a purpose.

That is why people are happy Gennady Zyuganov and the CPRF are bringing back the Pioneers
http://moskprf.ru/images/stories/fotoimg/16052010/IMGA0405.JPG
http://moskprf.ru/images/stories/fotoimg/16052010/IMGA0361.JPG
http://brkkprf.ucoz.ru/_nw/16/38197605.jpg
http://brkkprf.ucoz.ru/_nw/16/96238277.jpg
http://vsevkprf.ru/img/2011/19.05/18.jpg
http://nakhaba12.ucoz.ru/52_b.jpg

5000 children in Moscow alone were admitted into the CPRF Pioneers this year.

It is becoming rather a great rival for Nashi's "Mishki" ("Little Bears")
http://pics.livejournal.com/dvizheniemishki/pic/0000g957
http://pics.livejournal.com/dvizheniemishki/pic/0000pqhf
My daughter, who will be 7 soon, wants to join the Pioneers. And not the Mishki. lol Because she likes the Pioneer uniforms, the Red Ties and all that. Well, to be fair, the Mishki have just come around 2 years ago. The Pioneers have had 60 decades to establish themselves.

NickKIELCEPoland
Aug 25th 2011, 06:58 AM
I don't know the facts, so can't comment on whether abuse is or isn't an inevitable factor in large groups of children.

I think MeMyselfandI is wrong to suggest that these camps are more communist- than fascist-related. Everyone knows that Hitler had exactly the same kind of camps.

But that isn't my main point.

This is my main point:

I agree with MeMyselfandI that there can be a lot of good eminating from these camps. I think anything that gets young people into the fresh air is a good idea.

However, I can't understand how MeMyselfandI can be so sure that abuse didn't take place at the camps of which he speaks.

I have no reason to doubt Michael's sombre outlook.

It is very very sad that the tiny tiny tiny minority, who abuse children, destroy things for everyone else.