Islam and Orthodox Christianity

[MeMyselfAndI]

Orthodox Christianity is far closer to Islam than any other faith, besides perhaps Sikhism, in India. Architecturally, Orthodox churches look a lot like mosques.

Kul-Sharif Mosque, Tatarstan
http://art16.ru/IMG/SANY3858.jpg

Christ the Savior Cathedral, Moscow
http://www.fotoart.org.ua/albums/userpics/Church_of_Cornelius_the_Saviour_Moscow.jpg

In terms of customs too, women wearing hijan like headscarves at least in church, and many on a daily basis in regular life

Muslim
http://www.arminerussia.ru/uploads/posts/2011-05/thumbs/1305742398_9_kurman_ru_hijab.jpghttp://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/akrucs/_answers/i-303.jpg

Orthodox
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/269668_10150314198111558_721246557_9668339_2293576 _n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263802_10150314195726558_721246557_9668281_4507949 _n.jpg

And have you seen how particularly our traditional old Orthodox communities pray?
http://www.anti-raskol.ru/images/_conten/2011/01/4-1311//1_06-.jpg
Remind you of anything? hahahahahaha

"Every worshipper has a special rug, when he or she does the Bow to God, he or she must touch the rug with the palms of the hands"
http://www.anti-raskol.ru/pages/1311

I should translate that sometime, it is very interesting, an account of a modern, very secular young teacher from Saint Petersburg, who went to live with a Old Orthodox community in Leningrad oblast for a while.

He talks about his 'adventures' there, including how he was banned from teaching about evolution at the village school; how he had to adapt to working without modern technology, like computers; etc. I will try to translate it soon.

So, anyway, I correct myself, it is not simply Orthodoxy closest to Islam, not new Orthodoxy anyway, but Old Orthodoxy, for sure, the most basic, traditional form of Orthodox Christianity.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Very interesting :)

[Michael]

...
I should translate that sometime, it is very interesting, an account of a modern, very secular young teacher from Saint Petersburg, who went to live with a Old Orthodox community in Leningrad oblast for a while.

He talks about his 'adventures' there, including how he was banned from teaching about evolution at the village school; how he had to adapt to working without modern technology, like computers; etc. I will try to translate it soon.

So, anyway, I correct myself, it is not simply Orthodoxy closest to Islam, not new Orthodoxy anyway, but Old Orthodoxy, for sure, the most basic, traditional form of Orthodox Christianity.

Does Old Orthodoxy have any silly rules about eating pork?

Actually, the commonality appears to be socio-economic, not religious. Dial back the clock a century or two and this is exactly what western Christianity used to look like. :shrug:

[MeMyselfAndI]

Does Old Orthodoxy have any silly rules about eating pork?

No. We do have a Great Fast in December, before Orthodox Christmas (Januray 7th). You are allowed only black bread and plain water.

Actually, the commonality appears to be socio-economic, not religious. Dial back the clock a century or two and this is exactly what western Christianity used to look like. :shrug:

True. I guess the biggest likeness is not so much in ritual, or structure; but in the attachment we both form to our religion. Same like with most Muslims, Old Orthodox are deeply entrenched with their religious convictions. Other Orthodox do not display their faith like we do
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/1//62/854/62854220_155378.jpg

Also, we have prearranged marriages, which is why most in our communities marry young and for life (I avoided all this by having moved away while very, very young, and that is very, very rare).
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/sas/image/100409/40912.p.jpg

This girl is being prepared for her wedding
http://img.66.ru/image/74743cadab72499589fc93d86e8e87e9/47dd6289/0/51/56/515608.jpg
Probably around 16 or 17 years old. Maybe less. As I said, we marry very young, alomost out of childhood...

Same happens in many Islamic societies.

[THETRUTHTELLER]

Orthodox christianity comes from the Byzantyne Empire. The center of which was in Constantinople - modern Istanbul, Turkey. Turks and other Middle Eastern peoples were the ruling nation of the Byzantyne Empire, rather than Greeks. Later they turned to Islam. The architecture with onion bulb domes, hijabs - headscarves, ground bows were all middle eastern, asiatic ancient attributes of pre - orthodox, pre - Islam era. The so - called russians are part tatars, mongols, kalmyks and asiatic in blood too, as they are in customs.

[THETRUTHTELLER]

And have you seen how particularly our traditional old Orthodox communities pray?
http://www.anti-raskol.ru/images/_conten/2011/01/4-1311//1_06-.jpg
Remind you of anything? hahahahahaha

"Every worshipper has a special rug, when he or she does the Bow to God, he or she must touch the rug with the palms of the hands"
http://www.anti-raskol.ru/pages/1311

So, anyway, I correct myself, it is not simply Orthodoxy closest to Islam, not new Orthodoxy anyway, but Old Orthodoxy, for sure, the most basic, traditional form of Orthodox Christianity.Last time I checked the text of the divine liturgy published by the Moscow patriarchy there were remarks on ground bows in the text. So why are the new orthodoxes don't ground bow (земной поклон) during the liturgy? Maybe, they don't even waist bow (поясной поклон)? Even though it's in the official text. Such a joke. Most of them never read the Bible by the way. They're posers with icons in their cars, homes, offices proclaiming themselves "orthodox".

[MeMyselfAndI]

Last time i checked the text of the divine liturgy published by the moscow patriarchy there were remarks on ground bows in the text. So why are the new orthodoxes don't ground bow (ЗЕМНОЙ ПОКЛОН) during the liturgy? Maybe, they don't even waist bow (ПОЯСНОЙ ПОКЛОН)? Even though it's in the official text. Such a joke. Most of them never read the bible by the way. They're posers with icons in their cars , homes, offices proclaiming themselves "orthodox".

Actually, many still do the ground bow
http://www.pravoslavie-verbilki.newmail.ru/chronicle/assumption/IMAG0072.jpghttp://www.pravoslavie-verbilki.newmail.ru/chronicle/assumption/IMAG0118.jpghttp://lestovka.com.ua/foto/Podruchniki/Podruchnik-27.jpg
http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/kistine2/2225/i-2261.jpg

But keep in mind that after many years of Godless Soviet rule, how many here do you think still remember the old traditions? After 70 years of government suppression and even eradication of those traditions? In the Old Orthodox communities, where I originally come from, this is preserved. The traditional faith, traditional way of life, traditional family values. Which is why we have no demographic issues either ;):lol:

But vast majority are off that path, far off. Maybe too far to come back on it :shrug:

[NickKIELCEPoland]

Most of them never read the Bible by the way. They're posers with icons in their cars, homes, offices proclaiming themselves "orthodox".
What do you think their motive is for doing this posing?

[MeMyselfAndI]

What do you think their motive is for doing this posing?

It is beneficial today in Russia to appear religious, especially for officials in government and such.

Look at Moscow's relatively new Mayor Sergei Sobyanin. Regularly appears in church, at services, sometimes alongside Putin
http://www.shans-online.com/images/news/2011/01/4d391b2151a6d.jpg

He generously hands out funds to the Church
http://svpressa.ru/photo/49796-3.jpg

And when Holy Mary's Belt came to Moscow a few months ago (I wrote about that), Mayor Sobyanin came out to Christ the Savior's Cathedral to personally meet and talk to the pilgrims
http://svpressa.ru/photo/50070-5.jpg

I suppose maintaining this sort of display of religiosity, today, is a lot like how officials, if they wanted a good career, had to keep up a show of devoting to the Communist ideology back in the Soviet Union. The Church is becoming our new ideology :shrug:

[NickKIELCEPoland]

It is beneficial today in Russia to appear religious, especially for officials in government and such.

So, who can blame them - personally, I think anyone who is rich and judgmentally Christian is a poser.

[MeMyselfAndI]

So, who can blame them - personally, I think anyone who is rich and judgmentally Christian is a poser.

What do you mean by that? "Judgmentally Christian"? Looking down upon others who are not so?

[NickKIELCEPoland]

What do you mean by that? "Judgmentally Christian"? Looking down upon others who are not so?

Well, judgmental means 'having a tendency to judge' (I think).
So, I mean Christians who judge other people.
Some Christians are not judgmental, others are.
It seems to me (from what you write) that most of your clerics are judgmental. However, there are plenty of clerics who are absolutely NOT judgmental.

So I am not talking about all Christians, only about JUDGMENTAL ones. Sadly, I get the impression that most Christians you know are very judgmental, but I can assure you that it's very different in Norway and England - very different indeed.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Well, judgmental means 'having a tendency to judge' (I think).
So, I mean Christians who judge other people.
Some Christians are not judgmental, others are.
It seems to me (from what you write) that most of your clerics are judgmental. However, there are plenty of clerics who are absolutely NOT judgmental.

So I am not talking about all Christians, only about JUDGMENTAL ones. Sadly, I get the impression that most Christians you know are very judgmental, but I can assure you that it's very different in Norway and England - very different indeed.

I suppose you can say that... Well... Most Orthodox priests do tend to believe in their own sacred righteousness; and the apparent infallibility of their logic. In fact, I remember once I was in church and the priest was preaching and this one man said (I cannot recall now what the subject of the argument was), "But, Holy Father, I think you are wrong about this." and the priest answered: "I am not wrong, son. If I am wrong, then the Bible is wrong, and the Bible cannot be wrong, therefore it is impossible for me to be wrong." As you imagine, that silenced the unfortunate man quite effectively. :rofl:

[Michael]

Well, judgmental means 'having a tendency to judge' (I think).
So, I mean Christians who judge other people.
Some Christians are not judgmental, others are.
It seems to me (from what you write) that most of your clerics are judgmental. However, there are plenty of clerics who are absolutely NOT judgmental.

So I am not talking about all Christians, only about JUDGMENTAL ones. Sadly, I get the impression that most Christians you know are very judgmental, but I can assure you that it's very different in Norway and England - very different indeed.

I find humans to be highly judgemental. Period.

Doesn't matter if it is religion, sports, politics, sex or morality, there is no end of people getting all judgemental about other people's behavior.

Indeed, you are getting all judgemental about 'judgemental' Christians here. :shrug:

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I find humans to be highly judgemental. Period.

Doesn't matter if it is religion, sports, politics, sex or morality, there is no end of people getting all judgemental about other people's behavior.

Indeed, you are getting all judgemental about 'judgemental' Christians here. :shrug:
Not really - I haven't said there's anything wrong with their judging have I - unless you count the word 'sadly' which I inserted into the text. And by that, I simply meant that it made me sad.

[Michael]

I suppose maintaining this sort of display of religiosity, today, is a lot like how officials, if they wanted a good career, had to keep up a show of devoting to the Communist ideology back in the Soviet Union. The Church is becoming our new ideology :shrug:

Yes, you are very astute here. I agree completely. Societies and nations have a way of creating common bonds - it is a necessary state-building process. Democracy can be quite destablizing if there are no common bonds to build on.

The US as a similar bond - all the high political officials must present a 'Christian face' to the public. This is necessary to be elected to public office.

[Donkey]

Yes, you are very astute here. I agree completely. Societies and nations have a way of creating common bonds - it is a necessary state-building process. Democracy can be quite destablizing if there are no common bonds to build on.

The US as a similar bond - all the high political officials must present a 'Christian face' to the public. This is necessary to be elected to public office.

Occasionally a Jewish person can make it into relatively high offices. It's actually an interesting way in which I suspect the first actual atheists will/have assumed high office. :sneaky: I wouldn't be surprised if Kagan was an atheist.

[NickKIELCEPoland]

I suppose you can say that... Well... Most Orthodox priests do tend to believe in their own sacred righteousness; and the apparent infallibility of their logic.
Your daughter's Sunday school priest seems to fit that description. I wonder if he has done a lot of spitting today:lol: