School homework

[Americano]

My local school districts have announced homework will be greatly reduced at the primary and and middle school levels. I used Google and found this is a trend in several states.

From what I've read to date there seem to be three distinct positions on the subject:

1. Emotion for reducing homework. This is dominated by parents who feel their children shouldn't be burdened with homework as it takes parental time to help them and that takes away from other family activities (undefined activities).

2. Professional studies. I haven't read any of them, the gist being homework at that level has no affect on learning abilities and shouldn't be required.

3. The US education system is going to hell and this is just another union ploy to reduce teacher workloads and parental responsibility for assisting their children in getting an education.

I know we have some educators here and people with good minds, what do you think?

[Michael]

I know we have some educators here and people with good minds, what do you think?

From what I've read on the topic, homework in the primary grades justs tends to reinforce existing socio-economic differences that are already known to have a disproportionate effect on educational outcomes.

So on that basis, I think it possibly could be a good policy - but I should think that it needs to be implemented with other supporting policy changes to be effective. Otherwise, it will just reinforce the already noted decline in the quality of the US public school system.

Besides, when public schools are run like prisons, I don't think educational reforms are going to make difference anyway. :shrug:

[nanacat]

My local school districts have announced homework will be greatly reduced at the primary and and middle school levels. I used Google and found this is a trend in several states.


Emotion for reducing homework. This is dominated by parents who feel their children shouldn't be burdened with homework as it takes parental time to help them and that takes away from other family activities (undefined activities).



Bushwa! Run 'em like dogs, I say!

Kids will rise to the expectations and challenges you present them with. Get off the phone, or facebook, get away from the boob tube and hold off on the mojitos (at least till the kids are in bed!) and sit with the kids and help them with their homework. I'm not talking about anxiety-producing workloads here, but homework is essential in re-enforcing what they learned in their school lessons.

[The Drunk Guy]

My local school districts have announced homework will be greatly reduced at the primary and and middle school levels. I used Google and found this is a trend in several states.

From what I've read to date there seem to be three distinct positions on the subject:

1. Emotion for reducing homework. This is dominated by parents who feel their children shouldn't be burdened with homework as it takes parental time to help them and that takes away from other family activities (undefined activities). This is the real reason. Parents are products of the same school system and often aren't even capable of assisting their children with elementary and middle level coursework. Add on top of that the fact that a huge percentage of households are now single parent or working 2+ jobs and you simply have no support system for children to do homework.

Even worse, the families who are capable and available are just too goddamned lazy to sit down and spend a few minutes with their kids. Its much easier to just have the kids watch TV on the couch, which is the exact activity you mentioned.

2. Professional studies. I haven't read any of them, the gist being homework at that level has no affect on learning abilities and shouldn't be required. This could be so. Schools have a very difficult time understanding the difference between memorization and learning.

Also, I read an article in Skeptic back a while that said children who learn reading and basic math at a very young age are likely to fall behind from boredom when their peers catch up. :shrug:

3. The US education system is going to hell and this is just another union ploy to reduce teacher workloads and parental responsibility for assisting their children in getting an education.
http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif

[Donkey]

I suppose you have some evidence to support your theory that reducing homework is an idea that comes from teacher unions?

Furthermore, if point 2) is the real motivation, and union teachers are involved, perhaps it has to do with the fact that teachers are highly trained professionals?

[Americano]

I suppose you have some evidence to support your theory that reducing homework is an idea that comes from teacher unions?

Not my theories, just primary opinions gleaned from the net and a local newspaper regarding the change in my area.

Furthermore, if point 2) is the real motivation, and union teachers are involved, perhaps it has to do with the fact that teachers are highly trained professionals?

Wouldn't be the first time professionals have used peer-reviewed papers to support a questionable position. Advocates of intelligent design and those denying global warming trot out their own 'professionals' all the time.

[Donkey]

So just speculation then.

K.

Carry on.

[Americano]

From what I've read on the topic, homework in the primary grades justs tends to reinforce existing socio-economic differences that are already known to have a disproportionate effect on educational outcomes.

That factual circumstance is being swept under the rug by advocates of reducing homework. The more I read about the issue the more it seems to be purely political with mostly elected school board members trying to please the widest swath of voters with their decisions. Single mothers, both parents employed, parents who don't want that burden of responsibility and teachers would seem to far outnumber dissenters wanting to retain homework.

So on that basis, I think it possibly could be a good policy - but I should think that it needs to be implemented with other supporting policy changes to be effective. Otherwise, it will just reinforce the already noted decline in the quality of the US public school system.

Besides, when public schools are run like prisons, I don't think educational reforms are going to make difference anyway. :shrug:

Not when the products they're turning out are supposed to be identical and education judged solely by test scores.

[Americano]

So just speculation then.

K.

Carry on.

Reduction and elimination of homework at the primary level is real, not speculation. I'm curious enough about it to take a look at how other countries address the issue. There have to be reasons why a majority of American youth can no longer calculate simple sums in their heads or spell. Too much homework doesn't sound like much of an answer. .

[Americano]

Bushwa! Run 'em like dogs, I say!

Kids will rise to the expectations and challenges you present them with. Get off the phone, or facebook, get away from the boob tube and hold off on the mojitos (at least till the kids are in bed!) and sit with the kids and help them with their homework. I'm not talking about anxiety-producing workloads here, but homework is essential in re-enforcing what they learned in their school lessons.

Helping kids with their homework and depriving parents of precious boob tube time seems to have become Un-American.

[pramjockey]

As a former teacher (at the secondary level) I don't know of any studies showing any increased learning at the primary level that results from the assigning of primary-school-level homework. In my own experience, I didn't receive any significant volume of homework as a primary student, and I don't believe that my learning suffered as a result.

I know that in my experience as a teacher, my success in actually getting homework returned (and especially returned in such quality that indicated any real learning was achieved) was extremely limited.

It seems to me that we Americans have lost our view on education in 3 ways.

1) we have completely forgotten the importance of involved and effective parents. Without parenting, kids thrown into the education system are bound to struggle, and often create problems for the kids around them.

2) we substitute quantity for quality. If the kids are struggling to demonstrate learning, we dump more crap work on them, because clearly it's a lack of work that's the problem, and not the quality of the work that's being assigned to them

3) an inability to understand and apply science. We bitch and moan about teachers' unions, or the cost of this, or this test, or the lack of that measure or whatnot, but we don't understand that we still don't have real, proven measures of worth for evaluating education, nor proven, systematic, scientifically based means of providing it.

[nanacat]

1) we have completely forgotten the importance of involved and effective parents. Without parenting, kids thrown into the education system are bound to struggle, and often create problems for the kids around them.

I agree totally. I know that parents work, that they are OVERworked and tired, but that's what being a parent means. I raised a kid alone, it was chaos. Until he was in his teens it seemed I never had a self. But what choice do you have? You HAVE TO attend to your kid's needs, and their education is a need. Jackie Kennedy once said, "If you bungle raising your kids, nothing else that you do much matters."

But realistically, sadly, Americano is right. It is no longer a necessity to raise your children properly. :(

[Michael]

As a former teacher (at the secondary level) I don't know of any studies showing any increased learning at the primary level that results from the assigning of primary-school-level homework. In my own experience, I didn't receive any significant volume of homework as a primary student, and I don't believe that my learning suffered as a result.
Agreed. I've seen no literature defending homework at the primary grades and I can certainly attest to the fact that I had none. I think grades 7/8 was the first time homework showed up for me (I wouldn't do it, but that's beside the point).

I know that in my experience as a teacher, my success in actually getting homework returned (and especially returned in such quality that indicated any real learning was achieved) was extremely limited.
I think the success or failure of a teacher (or education system) doesn't really show up in the students until 10+ years down the road. :shrug:

It seems to me that we Americans have lost our view on education in 3 ways.

1) we have completely forgotten the importance of involved and effective parents. Without parenting, kids thrown into the education system are bound to struggle, and often create problems for the kids around them.

2) we substitute quantity for quality. If the kids are struggling to demonstrate learning, we dump more crap work on them, because clearly it's a lack of work that's the problem, and not the quality of the work that's being assigned to them

3) an inability to understand and apply science. We bitch and moan about teachers' unions, or the cost of this, or this test, or the lack of that measure or whatnot, but we don't understand that we still don't have real, proven measures of worth for evaluating education, nor proven, systematic, scientifically based means of providing it.

1) I don't think the education system has "forgotten the importance of involved and effective parents". Indeed, just about EVERY research study of the topic of public education points out the obvious - that the educational and socio-economic status of the parents is the number one most effective predictor of student achievement in public school. The problem is that the education system can't do anything about this at all.

Apparently a majority of parents are divorcing, tuning out from PTA meetings and just plain skipping out on supervising their own children's education. What can the schools do about that?

Indeed, if that's the case, then one should seek to eliminate all expected contributions from parents if one seeks to improve educational outcomes. In other words, totally get rid of homework for elementary school kids.

2) I would say that curriculums have become bogged down with a bunch of politically correct ideas with a greater emphasis on (and number of) mandatory social studies type courses and course elements (which are often very politically popular with elected School Trustees who allocate the budgets). This is inherently incompatible with a relative increase of emphasis on the core 'three-R's' of actual elementary education.

This issue just underscores the ultimate and fundamental problem with public education - what's the goal? Are we training cadres of disciplined functionaries to serve the ruling corporate elites and earn a paycheck? Or are we teaching young people how to become independent and self aware citizens? In other words, is the goal to foster lifelong learning, independent thinking or just how to get a job? This is always a tough question to answer in any meaningful or practical way - so the answer is always 'everything' (which ends up meaning 'nothing').

3) I agree with this for the same reason I pointed out in my reply #2 - without an actual definitional goal of education, we can't create a functional metric for measuring progress.

That being said, I do believe that we have the tools to measure education and progress, but only if we define education specifically. We have to make a choice about the goal. Once you have a specific goal, then one can make rational choices about what is the best way to achieve that goal. But if one has a half-dozen goals, or even just three, then the rational calculations go out the window and one just makes policy based on faith (which apparently is in fact the status quo).

I have no idea what the solution is here. Public education is hard. :shrug:

[pramjockey]

I agree totally. I know that parents work, that they are OVERworked and tired, but that's what being a parent means. I raised a kid alone, it was chaos. Until he was in his teens it seemed I never had a self. But what choice do you have? You HAVE TO attend to your kid's needs, and their education is a need. Jackie Kennedy once said, "If you bungle raising your kids, nothing else that you do much matters."

But realistically, sadly, Americano is right. It is no longer a necessity to raise your children properly. :(

And that's the problem. Everyone's working too much to just make ends meet, and fewer are able to really attend to the needs of their children.

Agreed. I've seen no literature defending homework at the primary grades and I can certainly attest to the fact that I had none. I think grades 7/8 was the first time homework showed up for me (I wouldn't do it, but that's beside the point).


I think the success or failure of a teacher (or education system) doesn't really show up in the students until 10+ years down the road. :shrug:

Oh, I dunno. That so many of my kids graduated unable to write a complete sentence or to do enough math(s) to balance a checkbook (even with a calculator) probably impacted them immediately.



1) I don't think the education system has "forgotten the importance of involved and effective parents". Indeed, just about EVERY research study of the topic of public education points out the obvious - that the educational and socio-economic status of the parents is the number one most effective predictor of student achievement in public school. The problem is that the education system can't do anything about this at all.

Apparently a majority of parents are divorcing, tuning out from PTA meetings and just plain skipping out on supervising their own children's education. What can the schools do about that?

No, you're right. The schools can't do a damn thing about. it. Can we license parenting? Can we stop reproduction? Enforce sterility?

Indeed, if that's the case, then one should seek to eliminate all expected contributions from parents if one seeks to improve educational outcomes. In other words, totally get rid of homework for elementary school kids.

Or turn it into something that the kid both wants to do and is capable of doing him/her self.

2) I would say that curriculums have become bogged down with a bunch of politically correct ideas with a greater emphasis on (and number of) mandatory social studies type courses and course elements (which are often very politically popular with elected School Trustees who allocate the budgets). This is inherently incompatible with a relative increase of emphasis on the core 'three-R's' of actual elementary education.

This issue just underscores the ultimate and fundamental problem with public education - what's the goal? Are we training cadres of disciplined functionaries to serve the ruling corporate elites and earn a paycheck? Or are we teaching young people how to become independent and self aware citizens? In other words, is the goal to foster lifelong learning, independent thinking or just how to get a job? This is always a tough question to answer in any meaningful or practical way - so the answer is always 'everything' (which ends up meaning 'nothing').

Interesting points. The question of "what's the point" is always difficult. I could absolutely argue that an education without context isn't really an education. But, if the kids can't read, write, or do basic math, then the history and governmental studies really do become irrelevant.

3) I agree with this for the same reason I pointed out in my reply #2 - without an actual definitional goal of education, we can't create a functional metric for measuring progress.

That being said, I do believe that we have the tools to measure education and progress, but only if we define education specifically. We have to make a choice about the goal. Once you have a specific goal, then one can make rational choices about what is the best way to achieve that goal. But if one has a half-dozen goals, or even just three, then the rational calculations go out the window and one just makes policy based on faith (which apparently is in fact the status quo).

I have no idea what the solution is here. Public education is hard. :shrug:

The solution? Incredibly complex, expensive, and offensive to many. Probably unconstitutional.

[drgoodtrips]

This issue just underscores the ultimate and fundamental problem with public education - what's the goal? Are we training cadres of disciplined functionaries to serve the ruling corporate elites and earn a paycheck? Or are we teaching young people how to become independent and self aware citizens? In other words, is the goal to foster lifelong learning, independent thinking or just how to get a job? This is always a tough question to answer in any meaningful or practical way - so the answer is always 'everything' (which ends up meaning 'nothing').

To add even more confusion to the mix regarding goals (and at the risk of being too cynical), I would argue that a goal of elementary public education that trumps either of the ones you mention is to provide a baby-sitting service. The main reason that I say this is that hours for public school revolve around when parents might want or need to do things other than care for children, rather than revolving around the times that children are most likely to be focused and attentive. I suspect that children would do better with shorter periods of school activity distributed throughout the day. This is reinforced by how large classes tend to be, compared with a size that would be more suited to children of that age (smaller, more individual attention).

I think it's tough to make a case that the execution of the public school system values learning of any kind above simply attending and participating.