Texting in class

[Greendruid]

This is almost a rant thread - be warned!

I have an introductory class every year and I've seen a steady rise in the use of electronic devices over the past almost 20 years (Yikes!) in the use of such things. Where we never really used cell phones or laptops much in the early 90s to the ubiquity of "zombie" students roaming the halls not watching where they're going because they're texting a friend on their cell phone/blackberry/iPhone or what have you.

Now I can appreciate technology and its functions for making life easier. I'm hardly as much of a Luddite as I might come off as in some of my posts railing against the evils of human "progress". And in fact, I was probably one of the first kids on my block to have a PC in the form of the VIC20 so very long ago. But it's starting to get to me and perhaps this is a function of generational differences.

I have several students in my introductory class who seem to find it necessary to send and receive text messages while in class. While it may not seem like much, in a classroom with 50 or so students, it's noticeable. And not just to me, but to the other students in the class as well. Our school senate has recently given us the power to request that any electronic device be turned off or to even dismiss students from class if they refuse to do so. Although I haven't heard of it going this far yet, I have imagined a scenario where someday someone will make the case to permanently remove a student who has been repeatedly disruptive in this manner.

I guess I'm just wondering where others stand on this issue. I've actually banned the use of laptops in my classes for the first time this year unless there is a demonstrable disability that requires the use of one (and we do have an excellent centre at the school for dealing with such issues and co-ordinating efforts with faculty to address such). Every first slide of my PowerPoint presentations start with a request to shut your electronic devices off unless you are a member of an emergency response team. I've had to stop two lectures now to ask students to pay attention because they were distracting me and their colleagues with their texting. I want to point out that this is usually not just about sending someone a message. These exchanges are replete with reactions to the subject of the text, frequently laughter and snickering. When you couple this with the lecture material and the laughter and snickering happen very much out of sync with a socially normative time at which to do so, it becomes interruptive.

In addition to these incidents I'm well aware of the developing trend in students to use this form of communication. I also teach a senior seminar group completing their final theses/directed studies. One of them is doing a project on texting and how it has affected other forms of communication, mainly vocal communication. It's a good idea but the student actually floated the idea in the first statement of objectives handed in that texting was now more popular than vocal communication! :eek: A lofty claim indeed. What was more surprising was the student's claim that those who didn't know how to text were in the minority in the population! Amazing what some of them think of the world around them.

All comments on this topic are welcome, even if it comes in the form of "Greendruid, you're becoming an old fart."

[WFCY]

Few years ago I used to go clubbing with a bunch of gamers (as in, "the game", you know). We hate girls who SMS or pretend to talk on their cell while music is blasting so loud there's not a chance in hell they'd be able to hear what's coming from the phone. Phones are very anti-social devices in my opinion. And people use them to pretend they have friends while they have none.

One guy had a good idea and we put it to use, he bought a signal jammer, basically a small device that looked much like a cell phone, except when you turn it on, all the cell signals around you are jammed, nobody within 30m-50m radius around you can send or receive any messages or calls. haha, we exploited it and busted a few people with that, was pretty fun.

You could probabily get one off ebay, they are in some grey area of the law, but who cares, hide it in your suitcase and nobody will know. They just won't be able to fuck around on their phone anymore.

[Americano]

To me a classroom is in place for instruction and at your teaching level the students are there by choice. If some students are so rude as to disrupt your lesson using electronic communication devices accompanied by verbal reactions I'd have no problem permanently banning use of such devices in the classroom by all students.

As with most things in life people will push the envelope, which will require you to make an example of at least one offender to impress the seriousness of the offense into all student minds. I realize you can't do it but the perfect solution would be calling an offender to the front of the class, grabbing him/her by the throat and in an even tone stating "Listen dickhead/cunt, one more offense and you're officially out of this class and you'll need to start looking over your shoulder for large people with twisted grins on their faces for the one who is going to seriously harm you".

[Michael]

Is there any reason you can't just tell the offending/disrupting student to GTFO of your lecture hall and take their little toy with them?

[Margot]

:o

Guess who has been known to text in class?

I guess that, because I'm in the generation that started all of this nonsense, I just can't see the trouble. I'm willing to side with the claims that nearly everyone my age texts (at least in the US and other not-so-third-worldy places). The only time other people's texting becomes a distraction for me is when the professor calls them out on it. I may passively think "you're a rude fucking slunt, aren't you?" but I don't make any great investment regarding the situation.

HOWEVER, I have this aunt, and she's an annoying cunt. She calls the house at least once a day to talk at me. Usually, though, it just becomes me listening to her having a conversation with her husband on the other end of the line. She has called to dominate my attention, only to go piss it away.

That's annoying as fuck, and talking to her makes me feel a sort of camaraderie with my professors on this topic. At least, it does until I remember that I'm not getting fucking paid for my time.

Also, I highly doubt people text more than they speak, but I am willing to bet that people text more than they speak on the phone. I HATE trying to speak on the phone. It's nonsense. I hang up on people and then text them back ("sorry, can't talk now, in a place where my voice will shatter the delicate thread of the space-time continuum"). Texting is way more efficient! Sure, it takes a while longer to type a message than to speak it, but texting deletes those pregnant pauses, those "so...uh....how are you?" moments, those long goodbyes, etc. Texting makes people say what they need to say without stomping around it. I'm a huge fan!

I've been asked to swallow a lot of annoying social axioms (WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'LL NEVER FIND A GUY WHO DOESN'T LOOK AT PORN?!), and so I'm going to present this one: texting in class is going to happen. You can be the most entertaining professor in the world, or the biggest hardass there ever was, but unless you force your students to strip naked and do a cavity search each day, you'll always have at least one dumbass. The best way to handle that dumbass is the way that does not further the already perceived distraction.

[Americano]

Crush disruption by whatever means. A professor's lecture hall deserves respect for the lecturer and those in attendance who desire gaining knowledge.

[Margot]

Few years ago I used to go clubbing with a bunch of gamers (as in, "the game", you know). We hate girls who SMS or pretend to talk on their cell while music is blasting so loud there's not a chance in hell they'd be able to hear what's coming from the phone. Phones are very anti-social devices in my opinion. And people use them to pretend they have friends while they have none.

One guy had a good idea and we put it to use, he bought a signal jammer, basically a small device that looked much like a cell phone, except when you turn it on, all the cell signals around you are jammed, nobody within 30m-50m radius around you can send or receive any messages or calls. haha, we exploited it and busted a few people with that, was pretty fun.

You could probabily get one off ebay, they are in some grey area of the law, but who cares, hide it in your suitcase and nobody will know. They just won't be able to fuck around on their phone anymore.

Why does it matter what people are doing in a club? I mean, seriously! More importantly, why would you try to shame people who "pretend they have friends while they have none?" Don't you think they're having a shitty life as it is?

Unless you're trying to get the attention of the be-phoned offender, then why does it matter? More importantly, why would you want the attention of someone you obviously think very little of?

[The Drunk Girl]

Most of my intro. classes had a policy in the syllabus stating that cell phones were prohibited. I have witnessed one girl kicked out of a class for not abiding by this rule. Others have been called out and embarrassed (having students stand up and dance to their ringtone after hearing it go off) for their use of cell phones. One girl was bitched out for using her iPhone during class...she didn't inform the professor that she was using her phone to take notes :ummm: She wasn't lying but she was also using the phone to text.

In the larger classes, especially those in auditoriums, it is harder for one teacher to monitor cell phone use. I am not going to lie, I use my cellphone during class from time to time. It is kept on silent and if I miss out on something I know it is my fault. However, I am not saying this is right and it probably would piss me off if I was a teacher.

I laugh a lot during class anyways...mainly because I am making fun of someone.

[Margot]

Most of my intro. classes had a policy in the syllabus stating that cell phones were prohibited. I have witnessed one girl kicked out of a class for not abiding by this rule. Others have been called out and embarrassed (having students stand up and dance to their ringtone after hearing it go off) for their use of cell phones. One girl was bitched out for using her iPhone during class...she didn't inform the professor that she was using her phone to take notes :ummm: She wasn't lying but she was also using the phone to text.

In the larger classes, especially those in auditoriums, it is harder for one teacher to monitor cell phone use. I am not going to lie, I use my cellphone during class from time to time. It is kept on silent and if I miss out on something I know it is my fault. However, I am not saying this is right and it probably would piss me off if I was a teacher.

I laugh a lot during class anyways...mainly because I am making fun of someone.

Hey, remember that time some crazy bitch texted you about some other crazy bitch tying a baby to her chest with a fitted bed sheet? :D

[The Drunk Girl]

Also, I highly doubt people text more than they speak, but I am willing to bet that people text more than they speak on the phone. I HATE trying to speak on the phone. It's nonsense. I hang up on people and then text them back ("sorry, can't talk now, in a place where my voice will shatter the delicate thread of the space-time continuum"). Texting is way more efficient! Sure, it takes a while longer to type a message than to speak it, but texting deletes those pregnant pauses, those "so...uh....how are you?" moments, those long goodbyes, etc. Texting makes people say what they need to say without stomping around it. I'm a huge fan!


I agree. Texting is efficient when used properly. I can send a quick text in 10 seconds compared to calling someone waiting for the ring and them to pick up (if they do). The person in return isn't having to wait to dial their voicemail and go through all the options just to hear me say, "Pick up a loaf of bread." TDGuy and I use text throughout most of the day for little reminders since our phone time doesn't always match up. If he tells me the night before to remind him the following day to call AT&T, I just send him a text that says, "AT&T." Simple, fast, and efficient!

Now if someone goes on a big texting rant (much like my boss) and I am getting 3 at a time before I can finish one, I am more apt to call the person because at that point a verbal conversation is going to be quicker and more concise.

[Americano]

Most of my intro. classes had a policy in the syllabus stating that cell phones were prohibited. I have witnessed one girl kicked out of a class for not abiding by this rule. Others have been called out and embarrassed (having students stand up and dance to their ringtone after hearing it go off) for their use of cell phones. One girl was bitched out for using her iPhone during class...she didn't inform the professor that she was using her phone to take notes :ummm: She wasn't lying but she was also using the phone to text.

In the larger classes, especially those in auditoriums, it is harder for one teacher to monitor cell phone use. I am not going to lie, I use my cellphone during class from time to time. It is kept on silent and if I miss out on something I know it is my fault. However, I am not saying this is right and it probably would piss me off if I was a teacher.

I laugh a lot during class anyways...mainly because I am making fun of someone.

Is consideration for those students in the class to learn and the lecturer and not be disrupted by people texting and reacting to texts a lost form of civility? If so, it doesn't say much for that generation.

I find it difficult to understand the motivation of people who are unable to concentrate for 45 minutes to an hour without using cell phones for speaking or texting. Are their lives so empty constant electronic social communication dominates all facets of those lives?

[The Drunk Girl]

Hey, remember that time some crazy bitch texted you about some other crazy bitch tying a baby to her chest with a fitted bed sheet? :D

:rofl: Yes, I believe I do recall that moment. I did laugh out loud during lecture on that one.

By the way, "where do you like it at?" :lol:

[Margot]

Is consideration for those students in the class to learn and the lecturer and not be disrupted by people texting and reacting to texts a lost form of civility? If so, it doesn't say much for that generation.

I find it difficult to understand the motivation of people who are unable to concentrate for 45 minutes to an hour without using cell phones for speaking or texting. Are their lives so empty constant electronic social communication dominates all facets of those lives?

Is it our job to dictate what those people get out of their paid-for education?

[The Drunk Girl]

Is consideration for those students in the class to learn and the lecturer and not be disrupted by people texting and reacting to texts a lost form of civility? If so, it doesn't say much for that generation.

I find it difficult to understand the motivation of people who are unable to concentrate for 45 minutes to an hour without using cell phones for speaking or texting. Are their lives so empty constant electronic social communication dominates all facets of those lives?

I sit through a three hour lecture twice a week.

I don't find that my life is empty and I don't use my phone habitually during this time. Cellphones have never distracted me unless the phone isn't on silent. I am more distracted by dumb bitches that ask if they are going to bust a breast implant while trying to get an apical pulse...or the ones that ask questions non-stop before the teacher is done finishing a thought.

Also, I have never found this issue to hinder my education. Although I am repeating this semester, it had nothing to do with the use of a cellphone. My grades/GPA have always been good.

[Americano]

Is it our job to dictate what those people get out of their paid-for education?

Of course not. I also feel they shouldn't have the right to disturb those who are sincere about providing and receiving education.

[The Drunk Girl]

I forgot to mention that my university, along with others, have an option for students to receive important messages/information via text message from the university.

[Americano]

I sit through a three hour lecture twice a week.

I don't find that my life is empty and I don't use my phone habitually during this time. Cellphones have never distracted me unless the phone isn't on silent. I am more distracted by dumb bitches that ask if they are going to bust a breast implant while trying to get an apical pulse...or the ones that ask questions non-stop before the teacher is done finishing a thought.

Also, I have never found this issue to hinder my education. Although I am repeating this semester, it had nothing to do with the use of a cellphone. My grades/GPA have always been good.

I was referring to the references made by Greendruid of students vocally disrupting lectures due to text message reactions. There are always students not particularly suited for higher education (dumb bitches and asshole guys) and they generally wash out by their sophomore year.

[Americano]

I forgot to mention that my university, along with others, have an option for students to receive important messages/information via text message from the university.

Seems to be a matter of personal priority as to when people use electronic communication. I was recently dining in a rather nice restaurant when someone's cellphone rang (in spite of the very obvious sign at the reception desk requesting all but emergency personnel turn them off) and that person started what was a loud, personal conversation. The dining room went silent and the manager appeared instantly, going to the table with the conversation and requesting respect for the house rules. The offending party held their arms up and apologized to the other diners for the lack of consideration.

[Margot]

I was referring to the references made by Greendruid of students vocally disrupting lectures due to text message reactions. There are always students not particularly suited for higher education (dumb bitches and asshole guys) and they generally wash out by their sophomore year.

If they're going to "wash out" anyway, then why should I care if they're texting? I'm not going to "wash out" because Betty Boop over there can't stop texting her boyfriend.

[Americano]

If they're going to "wash out" anyway, then why should I care if they're texting? I'm not going to "wash out" because Betty Boop over there can't stop texting her boyfriend.

My response was to TDGirl's comment on stupid questions directed at the lecturer, not texting.

[Margot]

I sit through a three hour lecture twice a week.

I don't find that my life is empty and I don't use my phone habitually during this time. Cellphones have never distracted me unless the phone isn't on silent. I am more distracted by dumb bitches that ask if they are going to bust a breast implant while trying to get an apical pulse...or the ones that ask questions non-stop before the teacher is done finishing a thought.

Also, I have never found this issue to hinder my education. Although I am repeating this semester, it had nothing to do with the use of a cellphone. My grades/GPA have always been good.

I think that's the crux of my issue, too. I mean, of all the annoying distractions in a classroom, cellphones just don't make the list.
There is:
the sick kid who sits too close,
the guy with the Solo cup,
the girl who can't stop asking for "clarification,"
the kid who didn't read the text, but feels like adding input anyway,
the girl who comes to school stoned out of her goddamned mind and shouts,
the boy with the green hair,
the girl with the crinkly chip bag,
the professor's pit stains,
powerpoint presentations that go on forever and say nothing,
the skritchy sound of graphite on paper,
the boy who wants to talk about something totally irrelevant,
the girl who wants to show off what she knows,
the stinky kid,
the weird way the smoke detector buzzes,
the mad rush to pick up the uncollated, unstapled info packets the teacher is passing out one sheet at a time,
the sign in sheet,
calling roll (mandatory at my school),

and, of course, the girl who gets up to "pee" every five minutes when her cellphone goes off and she doesn't want to answer it in class.

All of those things annoy me. All of these things are unnecessary distractions that make me want to just walk out of a classroom. None of those things have been addressed here. It seems strange that we're picking on the one ounce of autonomy--the one thing that doesn't affect me--and denouncing it as a distraction. I can get over hearing a giggle. I can't get over "clarification girl." I can get over someone checking a phone that's been on "silent" for the whole class. I can't get over the girl who passes behind me every five minutes and hits me in the head with her purse.

[WFCY]

Why does it matter what people are doing in a club? I mean, seriously! More importantly, why would you try to shame people who "pretend they have friends while they have none?" Don't you think they're having a shitty life as it is?

Unless you're trying to get the attention of the be-phoned offender, then why does it matter? More importantly, why would you want the attention of someone you obviously think very little of?

lol too many questions.

one answer- cause we wanna fuck them. that is all.

[Margot]

lol too many questions.

one answer- cause we wanna fuck them. that is all.

Wanting to fuck people you don't actually like seems to have some pretty huge inherent flaws.

Particularly if you find fun sport in fucking with their heads before fucking with their... other bits.

[The Drunk Girl]

I think that's the crux of my issue, too. I mean, of all the annoying distractions in a classroom, cellphones just don't make the list.
There is:
the sick kid who sits too close,
the guy with the Solo cup,
the girl who can't stop asking for "clarification,"
the kid who didn't read the text, but feels like adding input anyway,
the girl who comes to school stoned out of her goddamned mind and shouts,
the boy with the green hair,
the girl with the crinkly chip bag,
the professor's pit stains,
powerpoint presentations that go on forever and say nothing,
the skritchy sound of graphite on paper,
the boy who wants to talk about something totally irrelevant,
the girl who wants to show off what she knows,
the stinky kid,
the weird way the smoke detector buzzes,
the mad rush to pick up the uncollated, unstapled info packets the teacher is passing out one sheet at a time,
the sign in sheet,
calling roll (mandatory at my school),

and, of course, the girl who gets up to "pee" every five minutes when her cellphone goes off and she doesn't want to answer it in class.

All of those things annoy me. All of these things are unnecessary distractions that make me want to just walk out of a classroom. None of those things have been addressed here. It seems strange that we're picking on the one ounce of autonomy--the one thing that doesn't affect me--and denouncing it as a distraction. I can get over hearing a giggle. I can't get over "clarification girl." I can get over someone checking a phone that's been on "silent" for the whole class. I can't get over the girl who passes behind me every five minutes and hits me in the head with her purse.

I just have 3 to deal with, but trust me it is 3 too many!

There are 2 redheads that I have named: "Red 1" (she keeps the lingering smell of firewood on her) and "Red 2." "1" sits in the front to my left, while "2" sits in the front to my right. Red 2 is an EMT, who thinks she knows it all. Both "Reds" ask questions that if they would both be quiet enough to wait 2 damn seconds, their questions would be answered.

Last week, "Red 1" informed the teacher, who is going to Vanderbilt for her doctorate and has also taught in the Masters program there, that the tables she told the class to read were really in "boxes." :mad: Are you fucking serious? We all are adults (random: there is only one 18 year old in our class of almost 100), she found the material, she knew what the teacher was talking about, so she needs to shut the fuck up.

"Red 1" also likes to speak up and inform the teachers that what they are going over isn't on our PP notes. Once again, we all are adults and not everything that is gone over is going to be word for word in our notes.

As you can see "Red 1" takes the cake over "Red 2" but shit-fire when they both get going. There is also a dummy (the one that asked about popping a fake tit) that has been dubbed, "Dippy Do." I think one day I am going to bring scissors and cut off her pigtail braids.

[WFCY]

Wanting to fuck people you don't actually like seems to have some pretty huge inherent flaws.

Particularly if you find fun sport in fucking with their heads before fucking with their... other bits.

"Flaws" such as?

You have way too many excuses not to have pleasure. Let those self made rationale get in your way. They are just excuses for incompetence in the end of day.

[Margot]

"Flaws" such as?

You have way too many excuses not to have pleasure. Let those self made rationale get in your way. They are just excuses for incompetence in the end of day.

Whatever. Go buy me a fruity drink.

[WFCY]

Whatever. Go buy me a fruity drink.

dont think so.

[JHC]

This is almost a rant thread - be warned!

I have an introductory class every year and I've seen a steady rise in the use of electronic devices over the past almost 20 years (Yikes!) in the use of such things. Where we never really used cell phones or laptops much in the early 90s to the ubiquity of "zombie" students roaming the halls not watching where they're going because they're texting a friend on their cell phone/blackberry/iPhone or what have you.

Now I can appreciate technology and its functions for making life easier. I'm hardly as much of a Luddite as I might come off as in some of my posts railing against the evils of human "progress". And in fact, I was probably one of the first kids on my block to have a PC in the form of the VIC20 so very long ago. But it's starting to get to me and perhaps this is a function of generational differences.

I have several students in my introductory class who seem to find it necessary to send and receive text messages while in class. While it may not seem like much, in a classroom with 50 or so students, it's noticeable. And not just to me, but to the other students in the class as well. Our school senate has recently given us the power to request that any electronic device be turned off or to even dismiss students from class if they refuse to do so. Although I haven't heard of it going this far yet, I have imagined a scenario where someday someone will make the case to permanently remove a student who has been repeatedly disruptive in this manner.

I guess I'm just wondering where others stand on this issue. I've actually banned the use of laptops in my classes for the first time this year unless there is a demonstrable disability that requires the use of one (and we do have an excellent centre at the school for dealing with such issues and co-ordinating efforts with faculty to address such). Every first slide of my PowerPoint presentations start with a request to shut your electronic devices off unless you are a member of an emergency response team. I've had to stop two lectures now to ask students to pay attention because they were distracting me and their colleagues with their texting. I want to point out that this is usually not just about sending someone a message. These exchanges are replete with reactions to the subject of the text, frequently laughter and snickering. When you couple this with the lecture material and the laughter and snickering happen very much out of sync with a socially normative time at which to do so, it becomes interruptive.

In addition to these incidents I'm well aware of the developing trend in students to use this form of communication. I also teach a senior seminar group completing their final theses/directed studies. One of them is doing a project on texting and how it has affected other forms of communication, mainly vocal communication. It's a good idea but the student actually floated the idea in the first statement of objectives handed in that texting was now more popular than vocal communication! :eek: A lofty claim indeed. What was more surprising was the student's claim that those who didn't know how to text were in the minority in the population! Amazing what some of them think of the world around them.

All comments on this topic are welcome, even if it comes in the form of "Greendruid, you're becoming an old fart."

Wow, I understand completely. I might be able to offer a slightly new view on this topic though. You know I'm an old fart as well - 45. And you probably also know that I have Crohn's disease. Well, with that, comes arthritis. I never imagined it would get as bad as it does - Margot has to drive for me lately because it is currently resulting in severe lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) such that I can't turn the stupid steering wheel!

Anyway, I was taking Chem II over the summer and had arthritis in my hands and wrists. It was very hard to write with pen and paper. Part of my required work included specifically hand written papers about historical chemists and their work. Plus, I was supposed to be doing daily lab write-ups thingies...what are those called again? Damn memory.

I asked my Chemistry professor if I could type the papers because of my arthritis and he was very pleasant but said that I had to apply for special classification through the college.

In order to get the special "disabled" status from the school, I had to have my doctors sign forms and write stuff. Sounds like no big deal but it is. I have separate doctors for all the different symptoms and they aren't coordinated very well and they're all busy and they already think I'm a pain in the ass. It is a very long and arduous affair and I HATE it!

I understand why he wanted it hand written because chemistry is replete with cheaters. Seriously, chem and calculus, more cheaters than I've seen outside school in a lifetime.

ALL of my teachers from A&P, tons of biology courses, and education courses were more than happy to work with me. I sat in the front of the class with my bifocals on, my laptop open, typing notes or following a powerpoint on my own screen, while some of my classmates sent texts on their phones in their laps.

All I can say, is that your students should understand at some point that success is there for the taking and it doesn't come from texting while the lecture is in progress.

[JHC]

Most of my intro. classes had a policy in the syllabus stating that cell phones were prohibited. I have witnessed one girl kicked out of a class for not abiding by this rule. Others have been called out and embarrassed (having students stand up and dance to their ringtone after hearing it go off) for their use of cell phones. One girl was bitched out for using her iPhone during class...she didn't inform the professor that she was using her phone to take notes :ummm: She wasn't lying but she was also using the phone to text.

In the larger classes, especially those in auditoriums, it is harder for one teacher to monitor cell phone use. I am not going to lie, I use my cellphone during class from time to time. It is kept on silent and if I miss out on something I know it is my fault. However, I am not saying this is right and it probably would piss me off if I was a teacher.

I laugh a lot during class anyways...mainly because I am making fun of someone.

In one of my bio labs, the professor warned in the syllabus and verbally before each test, that if a cell phone sounded, leave it alone. Sure enough, a cell phone rang during an exam, the owner picked it up to shut it off, was required to leave the classroom and received a zero for the test. Thats all there was to it. The student accepted the responsibility for the cell phone ringing by having it in the classroom, turned on, and then answering it.

I was extremely impressed with the way the professor handled it. There was no anger, no apology, no crying or discussion. It never came up again. AND, it never happened again!

See, I wouldn't be offended if I were the professor and my students were distracted. That is literally their problem, they paid for my services and use them (or not), as they choose. If they were laughing out loud while I was lecturing, I'd drag them up to the front of the class and hit them several times with a cane.

No problem. :lol:

[JHC]

Is consideration for those students in the class to learn and the lecturer and not be disrupted by people texting and reacting to texts a lost form of civility? If so, it doesn't say much for that generation.

I find it difficult to understand the motivation of people who are unable to concentrate for 45 minutes to an hour without using cell phones for speaking or texting. Are their lives so empty constant electronic social communication dominates all facets of those lives?

I'm with you 100%. I also think that this is not the professor's concern as long as it isn't disrupting others. That's the only point where you and I disagree I think.

Margot and her sister hate it when I am indirect in my instruction technique but when Dad got sick and quit trying to manage my life is when I finally grew up. I figure the best way for a student (or offspring) to learn, is to reap the consequences of their actions. At some point, folks have to start making the connection between their individual choices and the way their lives are turning out.

Humiliating a student in class doesn't get them to pay attention to your lecture and it teaches the rest of the students that the important aspect of the class is to respect the professor - not necessarily the subject.

A good example was my first year Anatomy & Physiology professor; he was the absolute worst teacher in the entire world. I didn't pay attention. I read my text while he "lectured". He actually told my classmates that reading the text was too complicated and time consuming. I got an "A" along with one other student.

[Michael]

I do agree that if the student is not 'disruptive' of the lecture hall, then there is no problem at all if they want to sit there and waste their own time not paying attention - that should be their perogative entirely.

My point of 'ejection' was entirely based on the student being defined as a distruption.

[Americano]

I'm with you 100%. I also think that this is not the professor's concern as long as it isn't disrupting others. That's the only point where you and I disagree I think.

Margot and her sister hate it when I am indirect in my instruction technique but when Dad got sick and quit trying to manage my life is when I finally grew up. I figure the best way for a student (or offspring) to learn, is to reap the consequences of their actions. At some point, folks have to start making the connection between their individual choices and the way their lives are turning out.

That happens to be reality. Different people understand the ramifications of their choices at different stages in life while some never have a clue.

Humiliating a student in class doesn't get them to pay attention to your lecture and it teaches the rest of the students that the important aspect of the class is to respect the professor - not necessarily the subject.

I feel circumstance is what earns respect or not. If a classroom in use has a no cellphone ring or the offender is out, that's structure. With regard to texting in class, fine as long as there's no verbal distraction like laughing out loud or 'Ah shit'. I like rules and a professor who doesn't establish a behavioral standard to suppress distractions from the lecture is, in my opinion, a professional lacking people skills without a shred of management ability.

A good example was my first year Anatomy & Physiology professor; he was the absolute worst teacher in the entire world. I didn't pay attention. I read my text while he "lectured". He actually told my classmates that reading the text was too complicated and time consuming. I got an "A" along with one other student.

Every profession has a collection of incompetents. Weeding them out in academia is no more practical than any other profession. The medical profession has some real nightmares. I still believe in the Peter Principal.

[JHC]

That happens to be reality. Different people understand the ramifications of their choices at different stages in life while some never have a clue.



I feel circumstance is what earns respect or not. If a classroom in use has a no cellphone ring or the offender is out, that's structure. With regard to texting in class, fine as long as there's no verbal distraction like laughing out loud or 'Ah shit'. I like rules and a professor who doesn't establish a behavioral standard to suppress distractions from the lecture is, in my opinion, a professional lacking people skills without a shred of management ability.



Every profession has a collection of incompetents. Weeding them out in academia is no more practical than any other profession. The medical profession has some real nightmares. I still believe in the Peter Principal.

We agree completely.

[JHC]

I do agree that if the student is not 'disruptive' of the lecture hall, then there is no problem at all if they want to sit there and waste their own time not paying attention - that should be their perogative entirely.

My point of 'ejection' was entirely based on the student being defined as a distruption.

Oh, hell yeah. I agree completely - out they go.

[Americano]

I do agree that if the student is not 'disruptive' of the lecture hall, then there is no problem at all if they want to sit there and waste their own time not paying attention - that should be their perogative entirely.

My point of 'ejection' was entirely based on the student being defined as a distruption.

That's my mental disconnect with contemporary classroom or lecture hall behavior. As an old-timer - get off the property punk or I'm pulling the trigger and killing you - I find fault with teachers and higher education professors unable to control their professional circumstances. I also blame students in those classes to learn or quietly kill time for credit putting up with disruptions.

[WFCY]

I do agree that if the student is not 'disruptive' of the lecture hall, then there is no problem at all if they want to sit there and waste their own time not paying attention - that should be their perogative entirely.

My point of 'ejection' was entirely based on the student being defined as a distruption.

actually, anybody with classroom teaching experience knows that a student's overt distractedness is something that disrupts the teacher's effectiveness. A teacher is not an automaton that continues to perform his duty with complete disregard to his audience. When someone or several of his audiences overtly demonstrate their state of disregard, the teacher begins to question his own performance, and it has a negative impact on teaching and a negative impact on the rest of the students who are trying to take thing seriously.

I get very aggressive at my students when they chatter or sms in my classess. If they don't want to be there, they won't. It's a fuckin university, not primary school, you don't wanna learn, go play starcraft 2, fuck the chick you picked up last night, or go facebook bitch, is what I tell them, literally. It's better to nip them at the bud before they grow into full bloom.

[Americano]

actually, anybody with classroom teaching experience knows that a student's overt distractedness is something that disrupts the teacher's effectiveness. A teacher is not an automaton that continues to perform his duty with complete disregard to his audience. When someone or several of his audiences overtly demonstrate their state of disregard, the teacher begins to question his own performance, and it has a negative impact on teaching and a negative impact on the rest of the students who are trying to take thing seriously.

I get very aggressive at my students when they chatter or sms in my classess. If they don't want to be there, they won't. It's a fuckin university, not primary school, you don't wanna learn, go play starcraft 2, fuck the chick you picked up last night, or go facebook bitch, is what I tell them, literally. It's better to nip them at the bud before they grow into full bloom.

What does one do with tenured failures? Not much different than a unionized, failed repetitive function assembler.

[Margot]

actually, anybody with classroom teaching experience knows that a student's overt distractedness is something that disrupts the teacher's effectiveness. A teacher is not an automaton that continues to perform his duty with complete disregard to his audience. When someone or several of his audiences overtly demonstrate their state of disregard, the teacher begins to question his own performance, and it has a negative impact on teaching and a negative impact on the rest of the students who are trying to take thing seriously.

I get very aggressive at my students when they chatter or sms in my classess. If they don't want to be there, they won't. It's a fuckin university, not primary school, you don't wanna learn, go play starcraft 2, fuck the chick you picked up last night, or go facebook bitch, is what I tell them, literally. It's better to nip them at the bud before they grow into full bloom.

That reminds me of one of my history professors. He was a really sweet guy, but so paralytically nervous! He always had huge pit-stains, a meek little voice, and needed constant validation. It was pure agony.

It was his shortcomings, his need to appeal to the audience, that made me hate the class. Why on Earth would I ever respect someone who lacks confidence in himself? I mean, why should you expect me to take anything away from your lecture if you're obviously not a confident presenter?

It was too bad, too. I was extremely interested in the material at the beginning of the semester. It was the "History of Witchcraft in the Medieval and Early Modern Eras"--I mean, who wouldn't be into torture and toad-stomping.

It's professors like him who ruin the college experience.

[WFCY]

That reminds me of one of my history professors. He was a really sweet guy, but so paralytically nervous! He always had huge pit-stains, a meek little voice, and needed constant validation. It was pure agony.

It was his shortcomings, his need to appeal to the audience, that made me hate the class. Why on Earth would I ever respect someone who lacks confidence in himself? I mean, why should you expect me to take anything away from your lecture if you're obviously not a confident presenter?

It was too bad, too. I was extremely interested in the material at the beginning of the semester. It was the "History of Witchcraft in the Medieval and Early Modern Eras"--I mean, who wouldn't be into torture and toad-stomping.

It's professors like him who ruin the college experience.

whatever.

in my logic class, first session, I tell everyone I don't take attendences. Just show up on these couple dates for tests. Don't like my voice? Go fuck off and pass the tests and you get your credit.

People who wannna can even take the tests early, we can schedule it privately, and if they pass, they pass. Cha-Ching, end of the class for them.

But for these earlier tests, I tell them it would be harder, and if they fail, they wait til the next semester.

2 guys have tried, and they had to take it again, at a later time. LOL. Not my problem.

They didn't even come close to passing the regular tests set up for the rest of the class later.

[Margot]

whatever.

in my logic class, first session, I tell everyone I don't take attendences. Just show up on these dates for tests. Don't like my voice? Go fuck off and pass the tests and you get your credit.

People who wannna can even take the tests early, we can schedule it privately, and if they pass, they pass. Cha-Ching, end of the class for them.

But for these earlier tests, I tell them it would be harder, and if they fail, they wait til the next semester.

2 guys have tried, and they had to take it again, at a later time. LOL. Not my problem.

What does that have to do with texting in class?

[WFCY]

What does that have to do with texting in class?

why don't you explain to me what your paralytic history prof has to do with texting first.

[WFCY]

What does one do with tenured failures? Not much different than a unionized, failed repetitive function assembler.

what exactly is "tenured failures"? Like lehman brothers or GM CEO getting a share of that big fat $500bil bailout and still hanging around? Or are you talking about the rest of the BP board of directors? or the entire GOP campaign management upon their "Pledge to America"? They all seem to have a nice tenure and a decent collection of epic failures under their coat. Which one are you refering to?

U do realize that to be able to teach most of the university subjects, the teacher has to be more than just above average knowledgable about the subject, right? You can't get a high school teacher to just teach Physics 210, maybe 101, but that is it. And, forget about grad classes or passing masters or doctorate students. LOL. So who cares if the nerds are shy too, if there are fewer nerds than you need?

[Americano]

what exactly is "tenured failures"? Like lehman brothers or GM CEO getting a share of that big fat $500bil bailout and still hanging around? Or are you talking about the rest of the BP board of directors? or the entire GOP campaign management upon their "Pledge to America"? They all seem to have a nice tenure and a decent collection of epic failures under their coat. Which one are you refering to?

And here I thought the thread was discussing inept college professors.

U do realize that to be able to teach most of the university subjects, the teacher has to be more than just above average knowledgable about the subject, right? You can't get a high school teacher to just teach Physics 210, maybe 101, but that is it. And, forget about grad classes or passing masters or doctorate students. LOL. So who cares if the nerds are shy too, if there are fewer nerds than you need?

[JHC]

What does one do with tenured failures? Not much different than a unionized, failed repetitive function assembler.

Tenure is being slowly obliterated. I don't know what to think about that. It may get rid of the tenured failure problems but it may also make it more difficult to entice quality to begin with.

[Americano]

Tenure is being slowly obliterated. I don't know what to think about that. It may get rid of the tenured failure problems but it may also make it more difficult to entice quality to begin with.

I was under the impression that as with other professions alma mater, political networking and academic connections play a large tole in determining professional placement for college professors. Cream normally rises to the top?

[JHC]

I was under the impression that as with other professions alma mater, political networking and academic connections play a large tole in determining professional placement for college professors. Cream normally rises to the top?

??
I'm sure it does but when we're talking about tenure, if it isn't offered at one university, the professor may seek one that does offer it.
Tenure is a benefit that has potential to influence who applies for the job. If tenure (a job security benefit) is not available at one university and it is available at another, (or in a different field all together), then you may be getting less than the best candidate.

[WFCY]

just hire scabs to fill in university teaching positions. Solves your "tenured failure" or whatever you wanna call it.

[Americano]

just hire scabs to fill in university teaching positions. Solves your "tenured failure" or whatever you wanna call it.

From some of the comments on professors in this thread would it make much difference?

[Americano]

??
I'm sure it does but when we're talking about tenure, if it isn't offered at one university, the professor may seek one that does offer it.
Tenure is a benefit that has potential to influence who applies for the job. If tenure (a job security benefit) is not available at one university and it is available at another, (or in a different field all together), then you may be getting less than the best candidate.

So lower and middle tier universities will end up with the dregs, much the same as now, but without hope of tenure?

[Michael]

So lower and middle tier universities will end up with the dregs, much the same as now, but without hope of tenure?

The 'free' market tends to be a rather ugly affair sometimes.

While I certainly agree that tenure is a darn good thing to have, I can well imagine university administrations seeking to be rid of it.

[Michael]

??
I'm sure it does but when we're talking about tenure, if it isn't offered at one university, the professor may seek one that does offer it.
Tenure is a benefit that has potential to influence who applies for the job. If tenure (a job security benefit) is not available at one university and it is available at another, (or in a different field all together), then you may be getting less than the best candidate.

Yes. But sometimes 'quality' of education is not necessarily the commodity being bought or sold.

[WFCY]

From some of the comments on professors in this thread would it make much difference?

with a question like that you clearly graduated from one of such esteemed "universities" where "tenured failures" are completely absent due to the availability scab professors off the street.

wonderful.

[Americano]

The 'free' market tends to be a rather ugly affair sometimes.

While I certainly agree that tenure is a darn good thing to have, I can well imagine university administrations seeking to be rid of it.

Once fully tenured professors have permanent jobs with benefits including retirement subject to reasonable conditions. There's virtually no financial difference between sustaining that program than say a United Auto Workers Union.

Without approaching the perceived value of either function, which should bring some interesting opinions, many upper tier developed nations have raised standards of living for some citizens to a point where financially supporting those standards is no longer viable. Academia at lower levels, including universities, is taking a standard of living hit.

[Americano]

with a question like that you clearly graduated from one of such esteemed "universities" where "tenured failures" are completely absent due to the availability scab professors off the street.

wonderful.

I graduated from an excellent US university long before socialized higher education became the norm and created the tenure track dilemma. From an administrative cost position I'd certainly encourage the trend to annual teaching contracts based on performance reviews in institutions supported by public funding to weed out the deadwood.

[Michael]

I graduated from an excellent US university long before socialized higher education became the norm and created the tenure track dilemma. From an administrative cost position I'd certainly encourage the trend to annual teaching contracts based on performance reviews in institutions supported by public funding to weed out the deadwood.

The problem with this is that most universities see themselves primarily as 'research' institutes and that 'teaching' students is only a secondary activity for them.