Somali Pirates

[Michael]

Royal Navy in firefight with Somali pirates

Pirates caught redhanded by one of Her Majesty’s warships after trying to hijack a cargo ship off Somalia made the grave mistake of opening fire on two Royal Navy assault craft packed with commandos armed with machineguns and SA80 rifles.
Source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5141745.ece)

HMS Cumberland came to the aid of a Danish ship that was attacked by pirates off the coast of Somalia.

I find it fascenating that piracy on the high seas is still a danger in the 21st century. All indications are that this is going to be a significant problem for the foreseeable future.

Indeed, it will be a true test of western military dominance to see if they have the will and the wherewithal to eliminate this present danger.

*Btw, the Wiki entry for the HMS Cumberland notes that it has the only serving 'Satanist' in the Royal Navy on board. Gotta love Wiki! :D

[Greendruid]

Ya gotta root for the pirates! The almighty flying spaghetti monster will in fact tell you that if you don't support piracy you are contributing to global warming. Don't believe me? I'll prove it to you. Make a graph - on the y-axis plot the number of estimated pirates in the world starting at the year 1000 A.D. Then on the x-axis plot the average global temperature. You'll see what I mean. YAAAARRGH!

[Michael]

Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker

Pirates have seized a giant Saudi-owned oil tanker in the Indian Ocean off the Kenyan coast and are steering it towards Somalia, the US Navy reports.

The US-bound tanker was captured on Saturday some 450 nautical miles (830km) south-east of Mombasa, and is now approaching the Somali port of Eyl.

Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7733482.stm)

This is amazing. I just can't fathom how such piracy is tolerated. Just blow the fuckers out of the water.

Any government that can't exercise a monopoly over the use of military force has no business calling itself a government.

That's a Saudi Tanker on route to the USA. Therefore Saudi and the USA are demonstrating huge weakness here.

[wphelan]

Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7733482.stm)

This is amazing. I just can't fathom how such piracy is tolerated. Just blow the fuckers out of the water.

Any government that can't exercise a monopoly over the use of military force has no business calling itself a government.

That's a Saudi Tanker on route to the USA. Therefore Saudi and the USA are demonstrating huge weakness here.

Isn't a big part of the justification for our presence in the Middle East to stop exactly this kind of thing? If we let pirates disrupt what is supposed to be a stable supply of energy, then what the hell are we doing?

[Dominick]

I honestly can't help finding it funny. Especially that 'such cargoes are usually held hostage for months'. Where do they hide them ? It's a 330m ship :lol:

[Greendruid]

Go Pirates!!!

[Michael]

Isn't a big part of the justification for our presence in the Middle East to stop exactly this kind of thing? If we let pirates disrupt what is supposed to be a stable supply of energy, then what the hell are we doing?
Indeed. USA usually has a couple of Carrier Task Force Groups cruising around the Persian/Arab Gulf harrassing Iran particularly for this reason (the important Strait of Hormuz).

But of course this piracy game is most prevailent along the Somali coastline - where the US overthrew the Somali government.

That is to say, Iran is not a real piracy danger, but it gets around the clock US military 'in yer face', but Somalia, a place destabilized and anarchic, where piracy is rampant, gets a couple of frigates. Methinks someone has their priorities mixed up.

Any pirate that successfully hijacks a commercial freighter that is either registered to a western nation or carrying goods to/from a western nation deserves to be cheered. Every example of this is a spit in the face of US global military pretentions. The pirates are making a mockery of US military dominance.

US military power is looking like late Roman Empire now... getting beaten up with two small-state insurrections (Vietnam and Iraq) and now getting spooked by pirates. What indignity is next?

Seriously - any pirates seize any commerical frieghter ought to be a simple countdown to death for the pirates. Now I can see why one might not be willing to blow a Saudi oil tanker sky-high (environmental reasons) - or some passenger cruise ship - but any other ship ought to just be destroyed immediately if pirates capture it. Seems like a pretty easy calculation. Pirates aren't stupid - they do what they can get away with. If the ships are sunk immediately whenever pirates capture them, pirates will move on to less dangerous targets (if any of them survive).

Or where are the Navy Seals? Don't they get all excited at the opportunity to jump out of helicopters onto a moving ship to kill the pirates? This is a high value opportunity for the US military score some easy victories and get good PR at the same time. Failure to do so can and will have huge reprecussions down the road.

[Dominick]

^^
You can't just blow those ships up. Their crews remain on board (Steering a tanker bigger than many aircraft carriers is no trivial matter).

Other than that, you'd get into a major legal morass. In order to avoid taxation, safety regulations, decent pay for the crew and whatnot, these ships tend to carry the flag of the most ridiculous nations (not that the nations are ridiculous: just that there is no actual link between them and the actual ship; the choice is ridiculous).

Attacking these ships would constitute an 'attack' on countries such as Liberia, Panama, Fiji and the likes. In turn these countries would cease to be a freehaven for the evasion of social and environmental regulation, which would oblige the shipowners to fly under the flag of less 'free market' countries, which would increase the costs of the shipping. Presumably this cost would be (much?) higher than the occasional loss of a ship or its cargo. That would explain the momentary lack of reaction.

I like it when exploitation bites the exploiter in the ass :angel:

[Americano]

A simple and cost-effective solution would be an insurer requirement of armed guards capable of repelling the low-tech Somalian pirates for any vessel plying the coast of Somalia. Thanks to Iraq there are any number of well-financed, highly trained and superbly-equipped mercenaries to perform those duties.

China has problems with piracy and they take no prisoners.

[Greendruid]

China has problems with piracy and they take no prisoners.

They obviously haven't met the likes of Captain Jack Sparrow and the Black Pearl.

My analysis remains unchanged - GO PIRATES!

[Michael]

They obviously haven't met the likes of Captain Jack Sparrow and the Black Pearl.
Captain Jack Sparrow wouldn't last 5 minutes with a few rocket-propelled grenades landing in his rubber raft.

There is talk of arming "Q-Ships" just like they did in WW2. Good plan.

[Greendruid]

Captain Jack Sparrow wouldn't last 5 minutes with a few rocket-propelled grenades landing in his rubber raft.

There is talk of arming "Q-Ships" just like they did in WW2. Good plan.

He was swallowed by a whale and lived to tell about it! You think a grenade will stop him? Pffft!

[Michael]

British warship to lead EU armada into Gulf of Aden

Britain is to lead an armada of EU warships to the Gulf of Aden next month to tackle the escalating problem of piracy, in a mission expected to last 12 months.

The naval fleet, under UK command, would "disrupt and tackle the scourge of piracy", foreign secretary David Miliband said yesterday on a visit to Beirut. Piracy threatened trade and prosperity, he added.

EU military planners this week drew up a mandate, including rules of engagement for the use of force, for the mission at a meeting at Northwood, Britain's joint operations centre in north-west London. Plans for the EU fleet, led by HMS Northumberland and known as Operation Atalanta, are due to be formally agreed early next month, European defence officials said yesterday.

The EU fleet, originally proposed to escort boats carrying food aid to Somalia, should include ships from 10 countries.

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/20/aden-piracy-eu-nato-russia)

Well, this is interesting - a significant joint-EU military operation away from Europe.

[Americano]

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/20/aden-piracy-eu-nato-russia)

Well, this is interesting - a significant joint-EU military operation away from Europe.

From the article Russia has the better idea, remove the bases. Unfortunately that would involve occupation which few nations other than the wealthy (sarcasm) US can afford.

IMO the responsibility should rest on the shippers, through on board, adequately equipped mercenaries attached to vessels plying those waters. The cost would be minuscule compared to ransoms currently being paid or military vessel operations.

[Michael]

Yes, arming merchant ships with a couple of armed guards sounds doable. Heck, an old whaling harpoon would probably work well - the game is to attack the pirates in their high-speed rubber boats. Harpoons are good for that. ;)

[Greendruid]

Now the "Islamists" (I hate this term) that have been in control in Somalia are apparently going to show their opposition to piracy by taking them on themselves. This ought to be interesting to watch. Land pirates vs. Sea pirates! ARRRRGH!

[Americano]

Yes, arming merchant ships with a couple of armed guards sounds doable. Heck, an old whaling harpoon would probably work well - the game is to attack the pirates in their high-speed rubber boats. Harpoons are good for that. ;)

I was thinking more along the lines of a dozen men with shoulder-launched Stinger missiles and appropriate weaponry for any swimmers. That would be enough to secure even the largest vessels.

[SMadsen]

Finding a humorous side in this plain and simple form of armed robbery must be like standing next to a knife-stabbed victim in Central Park and be able to laugh one's ass off. It's a social tragedy and I truly fail to see the comedy.

Except maybe for how to deal with the problem. First time we had a navy ship down there and managed to catch some pirates, political hell broke loose at home. There are three essential scenarios: Hand them over to Somalian authority for prosecution. Yeah right, what authority? Like it's gonna make a difference. Toss them into the ocean and face international repercussions yourself. Bring them home and prosecute them, then, after a pleasant stay at your finest reformational institution, get them on welfare quick because, either way, you're stuck with them. Pirates 1, others nil.

[Michael]

Btw, I changed the thread title to reflect the general issue of piracy rather than the original event posted in the OP.

Except maybe for how to deal with the problem. First time we had a navy ship down there and managed to catch some pirates, political hell broke loose at home. There are three essential scenarios: Hand them over to Somalian authority for prosecution. Yeah right, what authority? Like it's gonna make a difference. Toss them into the ocean and face international repercussions yourself. Bring them home and prosecute them, then, after a pleasant stay at your finest reformational institution, get them on welfare quick because, either way, you're stuck with them. Pirates 1, others nil.
That's why the armed guard/attack scenario is best. Just kill them or deter them. Don't even think about trying to apprehend them. They ought be killed in action.

[Michael]

Now the "Islamists" (I hate this term) that have been in control in Somalia are apparently going to show their opposition to piracy by taking them on themselves. This ought to be interesting to watch. Land pirates vs. Sea pirates! ARRRRGH!
They have previously shown themselves capable of doing so. The present problem arose due to the US/Ethopian 'regime-change' game carried out two years ago leaving Somalia in chaos. The Islamic group was the one that was thrown out of power - and likely is the only one that may be capable of running the place.

[Americano]

They have previously shown themselves capable of doing so. The present problem arose due to the US/Ethopian 'regime-change' game carried out two years ago leaving Somalia in chaos. The Islamic group was the one that was thrown out of power - and likely is the only one that may be capable of running the place.

Agreed. If Obama continues paying for Ethiopian influence to remain in Somalia I'll be very disappointed with that decision. It's a crusader force, unless they're paid they'll leave it alone.

[Michael]

Shipping Companies: Blockade Somalia, or Attack It

With pirates continuing to roam the seas off of the Horn of Africa, shipping companies are talking aloud about all kinds of extreme solutions. Some are eying mercenary help. Two of the biggest firms will avoid the region altogether. The International Association of Independent Tanker Owners wants the UN to step up a naval blockade of the pirates' home bases in Somalia. A second shipping group wants ever more dramatic action -- attacks of the Somali mainland.

The pirate-infested waters off of east Africa are huge -- more than 1.1 million square miles. So rather than trying to patrol that whole, enormous area, tanker owners' association president Peter Swift suggests "putting a blockade around Somalia and introducing the idea of intercepting vessels leaving Somalia rather than to try to protect the whole of the Gulf of Aden."

Alfons Guinier, secretary general of the European Community Shipowners Association, wants to go even farther, the Guardian notes. "We’re asking not just for more escorts but for repressive action."
Source (http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/shipping-compan.html)

This is interesting - the demand for western military action is rising. Western military powers seem to be closing their eyes and 'wishing' the problem to go away. Apparently that solution isn't working out so well.

I'm thinking that public pressure is going to force someone to do something in these parts...

Would the USA or NATO have any basis to object if Russia (or anyone else) took matters into her own hands here? Methinks this is a brilliant topic for the US to make a break with the past and initiate some reasonable response to the issue. The longer the Western powers drag their feet over this issue, the worse they are all going to look.

Indeed the USA looks particularly weak right now. All those trillions of dollars for defense, all those Carrier Task Force Groups and they got nothing to deal with a few pirates? That's pathetic and embarrassing for US pretentions of power.

[Michael]

A swarm of 29 pirate boats attacked the Australian MV Athena cruise ship (pictured) off the Somali coast.

Source (http://warisboring.com/?p=1506)

Apparently the Danish navy was nearby and managed to avert this attack.

Can anyone imagine how this issue would change if these pirates manage to capture a cruise ship loaded up with a 1000 tourists?

[SMadsen]

Later, though, a Danish navy ship approached a small vessel with pirates that were held to be the same as the ones involved in the cruise ship assault but were denied a request to board it.

The comic strip cartoonists lack no inspiration these days.

[SMadsen]

Breaking news: The Danish navy vessel Absalon just boarded a small wooden Somalian dinghy with 7 pirates on board an hour ago or so. Anti-tank weapons were found and confiscated. As the soldiers were about to leave the dingy (can't do anything to the pirates for the beforementioned reasons), the pirates claimed to have been shipwreck for 7 days. Not being able to leave seamen in distress, the navy ship had to rescue them. And now we're stuck with them. Pirates 1, others nil.

[Americano]

Breaking news: The Danish navy vessel Absalon just boarded a small wooden Somalian dinghy with 7 pirates on board an hour ago or so. Anti-tank weapons were found and confiscated. As the soldiers were about to leave the dingy (can't do anything to the pirates for the beforementioned reasons), the pirates claimed to have been shipwreck for 7 days. Not being able to leave seamen in distress, the navy ship had to rescue them. And now we're stuck with them. Pirates 1, others nil.

Perhaps you can rehabilitate them?

[Michael]

This is a welcome development... China continues to crawl out of their century long hermit-like pose and are rejoining the world community in a positive way.

HONG KONG — In China’s first modern deployment of battle-ready warships beyond the Pacific, a naval task force set out Friday to begin escorts and patrols in the pirate-infested Gulf of Aden, state news media reported.

A supply ship and two destroyers departed from Sanya, on the island province of Hainan, carrying a total of about 800 crew members, according to Xinhua, the official Chinese news agency.

“In addition to missiles, artillery and satellite communications, special troops who are trained for the tasks will also be on board the warships,” said Xiao Xinnian, deputy chief of China’s naval forces, in a news broadcast on CCTV, the state network.

The task force commander, Rear Adm. Du Jingcheng, said the primary mission of the destroyers, which carry helicopters, would be to protect Chinese merchant ships, especially tankers with crude oil, that traverse the gulf, which separates the coasts of Somalia and Yemen.
Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/world/asia/27navy.html?_r=1&emc=eta1)

[partofme]

Right on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/world/africa/16somalia.html?_r=1&hp