Generation Me

[Michael]

Narcissism Run Rampant? Let's Not Flatter Ourselves

The last few decades have seen increasing efforts by teachers, policy makers, therapists, and others to shield children from anything remotely negative, whether that be competition with each other or criticism from adults. Competitive T-ball games, dodge ball, well-deserved falling grades—all of these have been flattened under the crushing wheels of the so-called self-esteem movement. It should come as little surprise that many folks (myself included) find all of this to be quite ridiculous and worry that the self-esteem movement may ultimately do more harm than good. Life, after all, is filled with hard knocks and disappointments, so if we don't allow our children to learn how to navigate the inevitable negativities and inequities of life early on, how will they function as adults?

There is also the tyranny of the least common denominator. If one child does not enjoy playing tag or dodge ball, then no one can play. (I wish we could employ that logic to ban country music.) One could raise numerous reasonable objections to the self-esteem movement and its foibles, yet combating one extreme position with moderation never leads to much. One must fight fire with fire.

There has been much recent discussion in the psychological literature and the popular press about the idea that self-esteem among young people has become so problematic that an "epidemic" (not my word) of narcissism has gripped the younger generation. Allegedly, high levels of narcissism place young people at risk not only for manipulativeness and selfishness but also for all manner of ill outcomes, including increased propensities for violence, depression, anxiety, and poor academic performance.

Article (http://chronicle.com/article/Narcissism-Run-Rampant-Lets/123705/)

Interesting article on an ongoing topic. Seems like the author of the article is trying to have it both ways - arguing against the concept while at the same time admitting the validity of the critique against it.

Indeed, the critique against the "generation me" theory seems rather weak. Psychological tracking surveys show that narcissism is rising fast amongst young people. Pretending that this is a good thing just doesn't cut it as a counter-argument against the data.

Anyway, it is a contentious topic. I've been seeing lots of studies, polls, surveys and anecdotal evidence that all supports the idea that the 'self-esteem' movement that took over the public school system some three decades ago is causing trouble down the road with a generation of kids hooked on entitlement.

Any thoughts on this topic?

Btw, the author of the article makes a demographic error when he claims to be from Generation X since he gives his age and he is unequivically outside the range of Gen-X. Gen-x is not an actual generation at all - it is merely a sub-set of the Baby Boom generation (those born in the 1960's). Indeed, the author himself is a member of the Generation "next" to whom this "generation me" label is applied. Demographic confusion of generations is rampant in the media so this doesn't surprise me at all.

[evanescence]

Naval gazing has become a fine art these days, but I doubt that people have suddenly become more self absorbed than in times past. The difference is political correctness. This is something I despise.

[Michael]

Naval gazing has become a fine art these days, but I doubt that people have suddenly become more self absorbed than in times past. The difference is political correctness. This is something I despise.

It is certainly difficult (and silly) to seek to define a generation with a label such as 'narcisstic'. I think the real issue here is, should our education system be putting 'creating self esteem' as the top priority of our public education system?

Personally, I think our society already suffers from too much self-esteem in the first place and the idea of fostering it with school kids I think is really foolish in the long term.

[The Drunk Girl]

It is certainly difficult (and silly) to seek to define a generation with a label such as 'narcisstic'. I think the real issue here is, should our education system be putting 'creating self esteem' as the top priority of our public education system?

Personally, I think our society already suffers from too much self-esteem in the first place and the idea of fostering it with school kids I think is really foolish in the long term.

Part of the problem starts at home imo. Seeing some of the parents that are around and the bullshit they blow up their kid's asses boggles my mind. Not to mention some parents are worse than the kids, planting little ideas in their children's heads about themselves or others. There have been many a'time I have had to bite my tongue regarding some stupid ass parent or kid, because I'm not a parent just a sibling :lol:

Working with the elderly has taught me a lot. A majority of the ones I have encountered don't have a college degree, especially the men. The men were hard workers that learned a trade or skill at a young age, fought in "The War" and have turned out to be generally successful in their lives. (The place where I work now, the rent is $2000+ a month to live). The women, if having any education at all were teachers. A lot were housewives or beauticians with the salon attached to their home.

Back then it was a lot easier for a person to get a job or make a living, with little or no education. You can't do that these days, and I feel that is where some of the competition comes in. "Little Bobby, you can be whatever you want. Just make sure to make good grades or be really good at a sport!" Not everyone is cut out to get a college degree, but it sure is being force fed to us.

[evanescence]

It is certainly difficult (and silly) to seek to define a generation with a label such as 'narcisstic'. I think the real issue here is, should our education system be putting 'creating self esteem' as the top priority of our public education system?

No, of course not. That is the parent's job.

Personally, I think our society already suffers from too much self-esteem in the first place and the idea of fostering it with school kids I think is really foolish in the long term.

[Americano]

It is certainly difficult (and silly) to seek to define a generation with a label such as 'narcisstic'. I think the real issue here is, should our education system be putting 'creating self esteem' as the top priority of our public education system?

Personally, I think our society already suffers from too much self-esteem in the first place and the idea of fostering it with school kids I think is really foolish in the long term.

It certainly redefines reasonable expectations based on effort.

[Americano]

Part of the problem starts at home imo. Seeing some of the parents that are around and the bullshit they blow up their kid's asses boggles my mind. Not to mention some parents are worse than the kids, planting little ideas in their children's heads about themselves or others. There have been many a'time I have had to bite my tongue regarding some stupid ass parent or kid, because I'm not a parent just a sibling :lol:

Working with the elderly has taught me a lot. A majority of the ones I have encountered don't have a college degree, especially the men. The men were hard workers that learned a trade or skill at a young age, fought in "The War" and have turned out to be generally successful in their lives. (The place where I work now, the rent is $2000+ a month to live). The women, if having any education at all were teachers. A lot were housewives or beauticians with the salon attached to their home.

Back then it was a lot easier for a person to get a job or make a living, with little or no education. You can't do that these days, and I feel that is where some of the competition comes in. "Little Bobby, you can be whatever you want. Just make sure to make good grades or be really good at a sport!" Not everyone is cut out to get a college degree, but it sure is being force fed to us.

Considering the fact that many colleges now spend the first two years attempting to rectify education that has been dropped or ignored at high school levels the value of many undergraduate degrees has diminished at a corresponding level. Seems obvious many are pursuing higher education as their only potential option to avoid joining the military or dead-end, semi-skilled jobs. The era of $25/hr janitors has passed.

[evanescence]

Considering the fact that many colleges now spend the first two years attempting to rectify education that has been dropped or ignored at high school levels the value of many undergraduate degrees has diminished at a corresponding level. Seems obvious many are pursuing higher education as their only potential option to avoid joining the military or dead-end, semi-skilled jobs. The era of $25/hr janitors has passed.

There are many remedial classes, but luckily students have the option of testing out of them..if they can.

[Americano]

There are many remedial classes, but luckily students have the option of testing out of them..if they can.

In general should students who require X remedial classes even be attempting to gain higher education? Doesn't that dilute the overall value and quality of undergrad degrees?

[Michael]

In general should students who require X remedial classes even be attempting to gain higher education? Doesn't that dilute the overall value and quality of undergrad degrees?

Indeed, if one needs remedial help to finish basic high school level, how can one hope to deal with post-secondary education? High school is little more than daycare for teenagers to begin with! :erm:

[Americano]

Indeed, if one needs remedial help to finish basic high school level, how can one hope to deal with post-secondary education? High school is little more than daycare for teenagers to begin with! :erm:

I wonder how that scenario drives contemporary college dropout rates. What an incredible waste of resources. Almost as bad as online universities currently pitching student loans, yet another level of babysitting.

[The Drunk Girl]

Considering the fact that many colleges now spend the first two years attempting to rectify education that has been dropped or ignored at high school levels the value of many undergraduate degrees has diminished at a corresponding level. Seems obvious many are pursuing higher education as their only potential option to avoid joining the military or dead-end, semi-skilled jobs. The era of $25/hr janitors has passed.

The first two years of college are a joke, unless you get placed in an upper-level course that applies to your degree. The only upper-level course I ever had with my basics was a biology class my first semester of college. The textbook was the same one used at my high school for AP Biology my junior and senior year. There were between 450-500 students in a lecture hall, and the doctor had a fail rate of 75% the semester prior. I believe a 65% was still considered a 'C' in his class, but he knew he was hard. The first day of class he informed us that he was going to intentionally try to fail us to weed us out. At this time, I was pursuing nuclear medicine and began to wonder if all my courses were going to be like that :lol: Now that I am a little older I can appreciate what he was doing, even with him being extremely blunt and honest.
_________________________________

It is a shame that that era has passed. IMO, just because someone isn't 'book smart' it doesn't mean that they aren't smart (not saying this applies to everyone). Some people are more technical when it comes to learning, and a lot of technical skilled jobs are a dying breed because people have to have degrees now. Hell, if a person wants a chance to make good money in a factory they need that piece of paper.

[The Drunk Girl]

When college students take remedial courses, they can test out as Evanescence said. They must take the courses before taking the gen-ed course of that subject. Additionally, they receive no credit hours for the course(s) like this, but they do have to pay the money for it.

Although, I have never had to take a remedial course in college, it has been required...actually mandatory that I take the corresponding lab with a math course. I fucking hate numbers and numbers fucking hate me! :lol:

[Americano]

When college students take remedial courses, they can test out as Evanescence said. They must take the courses before taking the gen-ed course of that subject. Additionally, they receive no credit hours for the course(s) like this, but they do have to pay the money for it.

As most state colleges aren't self-supporting, doesn't that mean the public is paying twice to provide that course (secondary and post-secondary) and then again when the student finally drops out and student loans default (guaranteed by the government)?

Although, I have never had to take a remedial course in college, it has been required...actually mandatory that I take the corresponding lab with a math course. I fucking hate numbers and numbers fucking hate me! :lol:

[The Drunk Girl]

As most state colleges aren't self-supporting, doesn't that mean the public is paying twice to provide that course (secondary and post-secondary) and then again when the student finally drops out and student loans default (guaranteed by the government)?

That's what I always thought. A lot of students bitch about having to pay for a course that they aren't getting any credit hours for.



ENG 090 (Basic Writing)
ENG 095 (Developmental Composition)
ENR 090 (Developmental Reading I)
ENR 095 (Developmental Reading II)
ENR 116 (Strategies for College Reading)
MAT 090 (Prealgebra)
MAT 095 (Developmental Algebra I)

Each developmental course is a three-hour institutional
credit course. The credit hours for courses beginning with a
zero course number, like 090, 095, or 098, do not apply toward
graduation but do count toward enrollment status for purposes
of financial aid eligibility and full-time student status. Note:

Students take MAT098 to prepare for MAT107. MAT098 is not
required of students needing to meet developmental mathematics
requirements.Source (http://www.undergradstudies.eku.edu/catalog/2010-2011/generalacademicinformation.pdf)

The information is on page 3.

[Americano]

Almost seems like secondary (high school) education is no longer a state college entrance requirement with getting loans becoming the priority.

[evanescence]

In general should students who require X remedial classes even be attempting to gain higher education? Doesn't that dilute the overall value and quality of undergrad degrees?

I believe it does; but the problem is the lack of education students are getting in high school. Basic grammar and spelling along with mathematics is lacking. Severely. The focus seems to be on social studies and play time. :rolleyes:

Indeed, if one needs remedial help to finish basic high school level, how can one hope to deal with post-secondary education? High school is little more than daycare for teenagers to begin with! :erm:

Indeed. I went to many, many school systems growing up and daycare is an excellent description. I remember in 7th grade literally doing nothing but sitting around the entire year because the teacher didn't have the first fucking clue how to teach math. She knew nothing. I made an effort to be interested in the assignments but when she could not explain the problems to me without consulting her answer book, I gave up. My children will either be home schooled or attend a quality private school.

When college students take remedial courses, they can test out as Evanescence said. They must take the courses before taking the gen-ed course of that subject. Additionally, they receive no credit hours for the course(s) like this, but they do have to pay the money for it.

Although, I have never had to take a remedial course in college, it has been required...actually mandatory that I take the corresponding lab with a math course. I fucking hate numbers and numbers fucking hate me! :lol:

Isn't that crap? Having to pay for these remedial courses. Interestingly enough, since graduating from highschool (almost a decade ago :erm:), I have found that Math comes easy for me now that I have good instructors.

[Americano]

I believe it does; but the problem is the lack of education students are getting in high school. Basic grammar and spelling along with mathematics is lacking. Severely. The focus seems to be on social studies and play time. :rolleyes:

Doesn't that reflect on parental guidance and student effort (or lack of same)? We know people with children in high school and college prep courses for most fields are still readily available.

The general rule of thumb used to be a student had to make the commitment to pursue a college prep course of studies no later than the sophomore year to successfully complete college prerequisite requirements. The only remedial college course for many years was bonehead English.

[Michael]

... Interestingly enough, since graduating from highschool (almost a decade ago :erm:), I have found that Math comes easy for me now that I have good instructors.

I would say the same about English classes in high school. That was the only class I ever had any trouble with in high school (darn near failed that course several times). I fucking hated that shit. Once I got clear of high school, I became quite in love with Shakespeare and have become a fairly decent writer (who actually loves writing).

:offtopic: Btw, the key issue I had trouble with in HS English was that they insisted that I had to do creative writing and/or write about expressing emotions. I don't like writing about my own subjectivity - I think that's boring and embarrassing. I was almost forced to quit (middle) school over my refusal to keep a personal journal. My love of writing only comes once I was free of the [obnoxious] high school requirement to write only about myself. :)

[evanescence]

Doesn't that reflect on parental guidance and student effort (or lack of same)? We know people with children in high school and college prep courses for most fields are still readily available.

The general rule of thumb used to be a student had to make the commitment to pursue a college prep course of studies no later than the sophomore year to successfully complete college prerequisite requirements. The only remedial college course for many years was bonehead English.

That's a good point. But perhaps making college prerequisites apart of regular high school education would be more productive. Surely, someone who graduates high school should know how to spell and write a correct sentence.

I would say the same about English classes in high school. That was the only class I ever had any trouble with in high school (darn near failed that course several times). I fucking hated that shit. Once I got clear of high school, I became quite in love with Shakespeare and have become a fairly decent writer (who actually loves writing).

:offtopic: Btw, the key issue I had trouble with in HS English was that they insisted that I had to do creative writing and/or write about expressing emotions. I don't like writing about my own subjectivity - I think that's boring and embarrassing. I was almost forced to quit (middle) school over my refusal to keep a personal journal. My love of writing only comes once I was free of the [obnoxious] high school requirement to write only about myself. :)

My problems was laziness. I couldn't be bothered with doing the homework. Overall, I did well on tests, but reports and homework..fuck that! :lol:

[Americano]

That's a good point. But perhaps making college prerequisites apart of regular high school education would be more productive. Surely, someone who graduates high school should know how to spell and write a correct sentence.

That's my point, they are available at the high school level.

[evanescence]

That's my point, they are available at the high school level.

Available to those who have the top grades, yes. There are classes that one can take in highschool that directly prepare kids for college. My point is that correct grammar and spelling should be standard no matter what. It clearly isn't.

[The Drunk Girl]

There are AP (advanced placement) courses in high school. One can take a test for $70-$90 (I'm not sure on the price of the test) and receive score a 3 or higher to gain college credits. There are also programs available where high school seniors can take actual college courses and receive college credits that way.

[Michael]

There are AP (advanced placement) courses in high school. One can take a test for $70-$90 (I'm not sure on the price of the test) and receive score a 3 or higher to gain college credits. There are also programs available where high school seniors can take actual college courses and receive college credits that way.

You're kidding right? As far as I understand, AP are high school courses that haven't been dumbed down (or watered down) for the masses not going to advanced study. They are not university level courses at all. They are the same "old" regular high school courses from 20-30 years ago before they got all watered down to help boost the graduation rate.

And when you use "college" are you using it in that generic American way or in a precise technical sense? Colleges do NOT award actual four year degree programs. US Colleges are notorious for having rather lax academic standards (rightly so since they are essentially vocational schools specializing in actual job training programs) and can only offer diplomas. If actual degree programs are involved, it is a university. I know there are some hybrids and exceptions out there, but this is the general pattern. It seems to me that American culture doesn't seem to make any distinction here at all. :shrug:

For example, if you asked one of my teenaged nieces in high school about their plans for "college" they would consider that insulting. They would likely glare at you and reply that they intend to go to university (with eyes rolling and lots of class-attitude). As far as they are concerned, "college" is for losers who can't get into an actual university. Despite the attitude, they are correct that there is a HUGE [social class] difference between colleges and universities.

[The Drunk Girl]

You're kidding right? As far as I understand, AP are high school courses that haven't been dumbed down (or watered down) for the masses not going to advanced study. They are not university level courses at all. They are the same "old" regular high school courses from 20-30 years ago before they got all watered down to help boost the graduation rate.

And when you use "college" are you using it in that generic American way or in a precise technical sense? Colleges do NOT award actual four year degree programs. US Colleges are notorious for having rather lax academic standards (rightly so since they are essentially vocational schools specializing in actual job training programs) and can only offer diplomas. If actual degree programs are involved, it is a university. I know there are some hybrids and exceptions out there, but this is the general pattern. It seems to me that American culture doesn't seem to make any distinction here at all. :shrug:

For example, if you asked one of my teenaged nieces in high school about their plans for "college" they would consider that insulting. They would likely glare at you and reply that they intend to go to university (with eyes rolling and lots of class-attitude). As far as they are concerned, "college" is for losers who can't get into an actual university. Despite the attitude, they are correct that there is a HUGE [social class] difference between colleges and universities.

I am using the word "college" in the generic form. Sorry :) And, yes I am serious about the AP tests. I am guessing that is the whole idea of scoring a 3+: a student pays the fee to take the test and see if they can score high enough to 'test out' of some college/university courses, which equals credit hours in the end. My first semester at the University of Louisville, there were several kids under the same scholarship as myself, who were already half way through their freshman year either from taking an AP test or taking college courses while in

[The Drunk Girl]

high school. (Sorry ran out of text space on my phone). At the h.s. I attended, students would go to the local community college for their college courses. I also know the feeling your nieces have concerning colleges and universities. My dad wanted me to start my collegiate career at the community college. I wouldn't have it and looked down on the idea. Ironically, I ended up at the community college after UofL. Too be honest, going for the basic courses at a community college (here) is not much different, if any compared to a university. Add to that, generally smaller classes and it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper, it turns out to be a good deal

[Michael]

high school. (Sorry ran out of text space on my phone). At the h.s. I attended, students would go to the local community college for their college courses. I also know the feeling your nieces have concerning colleges and universities. My dad wanted me to start my collegiate career at the community college. I wouldn't have it and looked down on the idea. Ironically, I ended up at the community college after UofL. Too be honest, going for the basic courses at a community college (here) is not much different, if any compared to a university. Add to that, generally smaller classes and it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper, it turns out to be a good deal
Oh I don't doubt that one can get a first class education at a community college. I'm sure some of them are excellent and as always, it would depend on the individual teachers as well. :)

I didn't mean to 'dis' community colleges at all. I think they do a pretty damn good job (up here anyway). If anything, we ought to be expanding these programs and trying to shuffle more of the mass of 'middle-class' university kids towards these types of schools since university degree programs aren't all that ideal training for most actual jobs/careers.

In the fields of engineering, medicine, law, sciences, etc, university degrees are everything they are supposed to be - a ticket to job security and above average incomes. But outside of those particular fields, not so much. BA's are still on the whole, mostly beneficial to have, but that's only because not so many people have them, and those that do, are mostly from the upper half of the income strata to begin with, so life is already stacked in their favor to begin with. A Bachelor degree is not an automatic ticket to a job and a decent income/career.

In many cases, a middle class kid could get better value for money by going to a community college and taking a more career-oriented course that is just as likely (or not) to deliver a good job with a decent income - at a fraction of the cost of a BA.

My point about my nieces was to underscore the 'social class' dynamics involved here. Indeed, America is well known for having a very large 'working class' that percieves itself to be 'middle class'. That is perhaps related to the blurring of the meaning of the word 'college'.

(And this term must be doubly confusing to any Euros reading this because the term of 'college' has a much more 'elite' meaning in Britain and European cultural history generally).

[The Drunk Girl]

Oh I don't doubt that one can get a first class education at a community college. I'm sure some of them are excellent and as always, it would depend on the individual teachers as well. :)

I didn't mean to 'dis' community colleges at all. I think they do a pretty damn good job (up here anyway). If anything, we ought to be expanding these programs and trying to shuffle more of the mass of 'middle-class' university kids towards these types of schools since university degree programs aren't all that ideal training for most actual jobs/careers.

In the fields of engineering, medicine, law, sciences, etc, university degrees are everything they are supposed to be - a ticket to job security and above average incomes. But outside of those particular fields, not so much. BA's are still on the whole, mostly beneficial to have, but that's only because not so many people have them, and those that do, are mostly from the upper half of the income strata to begin with, so life is already stacked in their favor to begin with. A Bachelor degree is not an automatic ticket to a job and a decent income/career.

In many cases, a middle class kid could get better value for money by going to a community college and taking a more career-oriented course that is just as likely (or not) to deliver a good job with a decent income - at a fraction of the cost of a BA.

My point about my nieces was to underscore the 'social class' dynamics involved here. Indeed, America is well known for having a very large 'working class' that percieves itself to be 'middle class'. That is perhaps related to the blurring of the meaning of the word 'college'.

(And this term must be doubly confusing to any Euros reading this because the term of 'college' has a much more 'elite' meaning in Britain and European cultural history generally).

I never took anything you said as 'dissing' :). Is my paranoia rubbing off on you? :lol:

I can't speak for upper level courses, those that are dedicated towards a degree, in a community college setting. 'Basic" courses such as English 101/102 were exactly the same to me in both settings. Sadly, both of those specific courses were pretty much the same as my Honors and AP English courses my junior and senior year of high school.

The community college in my hometown is known pretty well for their nursing program. It is a lot harder to get into the program there than it is where I am attending now! It became so popular that they went from just having an LPN program to adding a two year RN program as well.

:offtopic:I'm going for the ADN degree right now (an Associates). I originally started for the BSN, but my advisor was STUPID! She was having me do all this other shit that I didn't need to do, which I found out later. I finally decided to just change my major, since I had all the pre-reqs out of the way and would strictly just have nursing courses. It is definitely nice considering, I don't have to worry about taking Chemistry, Microbiology, etc. along with all this other work. When they tell you, you're taking an 8 hour load they're full of shit. It's more like 13-16 hours a week (and I'm working roughly 30 hours/wk). Additionally, I'm ready to get my ass out of school, have a career, and the pay difference isn't enough to really worry about right now.

I do plan on going back and getting my bachelors, in hopes I can get on at a hospital that will pay for it :D If all goes well and I don't get burnt out (or too old), my plans as of now are to get my Masters to become a nurse practitioner.

[Michael]

I never took anything you said as 'dissing' :). Is my paranoia rubbing off on you? :lol:
Not entirely. I'm just aware of how my comments can often be misconstrued.

Likewise, speaking about social class in the USA is also a notorious issue for raising hackles. :)

... Additionally, I'm ready to get my ass out of school, have a career, and the pay difference isn't enough to really worry about right now.

I do plan on going back and getting my bachelors, in hopes I can get on at a hospital that will pay for it :D If all goes well and I don't get burnt out (or too old), my plans as of now are to get my Masters to become a nurse practitioner.
It is good to have a plan. You may change your plan at any time, but just having one is important. Good luck with yours! :)

That is part of the education problem I think. Without a viable plan, most kids are just drifting through the system and that usually doesn't work out so well. Bunch of middle class kids end up at university, costing a fortune, without a clue what they want to do or why they are there. So they just take some liberal arts major to kill the time and then wonder why their university degree doesn't deliver the sweet job they expected - but then refuse to work at basic jobs because they feel entitled to a 'career' based on having a degree. Big problem with expectations there. :shrug:

[Americano]

Not entirely. I'm just aware of how my comments can often be misconstrued.

Likewise, speaking about social class in the USA is also a notorious issue for raising hackles. :)


It is good to have a plan. You may change your plan at any time, but just having one is important. Good luck with yours! :)

That is part of the education problem I think. Without a viable plan, most kids are just drifting through the system and that usually doesn't work out so well. Bunch of middle class kids end up at university, costing a fortune, without a clue what they want to do or why they are there. So they just take some liberal arts major to kill the time and then wonder why their university degree doesn't deliver the sweet job they expected - but then refuse to work at basic jobs because they feel entitled to a 'career' based on having a degree. Big problem with expectations there. :shrug:

Are you referring to diploma mill schools flooding fast food joints with supposedly educated burger flippers or 'any four year degree' government job qualification requirements?

[The Drunk Girl]

It is good to have a plan. You may change your plan at any time, but just having one is important. Good luck with yours! :)

Thank you.

It should be another 18 months after this degree to receive a bachelor's.


That is part of the education problem I think. Without a viable plan, most kids are just drifting through the system and that usually doesn't work out so well. Bunch of middle class kids end up at university, costing a fortune, without a clue what they want to do or why they are there. So they just take some liberal arts major to kill the time and then wonder why their university degree doesn't deliver the sweet job they expected - but then refuse to work at basic jobs because they feel entitled to a 'career' based on having a degree. Big problem with expectations there. :shrug:

:lol: I have had three majors, four if you include being 'undecided' : nuclear medicine, history, and nursing.

A classmate of mine this morning was talking about how she was one semester away from doing her student teaching and decided she didn't like it and changed her major. Another student has her bachelor's in family science(?) or something like that, was on her way for her master's and decided she didn't like it. There are many more like that in the ADN and BSN programs who have degrees, or were almost finished and just haven't utilized the degree they have. I understand that some fields are harder than others to find jobs in, but I honestly do not think I would put myself through a whole other load of work for something different. But that is just me.

It is hard to know what you want to do for the rest of your life when you're 17-18 and straight out of high school. Hell, if it wouldn't have been for me needing a job and friend telling me about being a CNA I never would have found my 'calling.'

[Michael]

Thank you.

It should be another 18 months after this degree to receive a bachelor's.



:lol: I have had three majors, four if you include being 'undecided' : nuclear medicine, history, and nursing.

A classmate of mine this morning was talking about how she was one semester away from doing her student teaching and decided she didn't like it and changed her major. Another student has her bachelor's in family science(?) or something like that, was on her way for her master's and decided she didn't like it. There are many more like that in the ADN and BSN programs who have degrees, or were almost finished and just haven't utilized the degree they have. I understand that some fields are harder than others to find jobs in, but I honestly do not think I would put myself through a whole other load of work for something different. But that is just me.

It is hard to know what you want to do for the rest of your life when you're 17-18 and straight out of high school. Hell, if it wouldn't have been for me needing a job and friend telling me about being a CNA I never would have found my 'calling.'
When the parents are bankrolling the student lifestyle, it is a very attractive lifestyle option to just stay there as long as possible.

It is also a well known fact that the vast majority of students who enroll in post-secondary education never finish it. :shrug:

[evanescence]

Thank you.

It should be another 18 months after this degree to receive a bachelor's.



:lol: I have had three majors, four if you include being 'undecided' : nuclear medicine, history, and nursing.

A classmate of mine this morning was talking about how she was one semester away from doing her student teaching and decided she didn't like it and changed her major. Another student has her bachelor's in family science(?) or something like that, was on her way for her master's and decided she didn't like it. There are many more like that in the ADN and BSN programs who have degrees, or were almost finished and just haven't utilized the degree they have. I understand that some fields are harder than others to find jobs in, but I honestly do not think I would put myself through a whole other load of work for something different. But that is just me.

It is hard to know what you want to do for the rest of your life when you're 17-18 and straight out of high school. Hell, if it wouldn't have been for me needing a job and friend telling me about being a CNA I never would have found my 'calling.'

:lol: You sound like me.. I changed my major five times. But my parents were not financing my education.

[Americano]

When the parents are bankrolling the student lifestyle, it is a very attractive lifestyle option to just stay there as long as possible.

It is also a well known fact that the vast majority of students who enroll in post-secondary education never finish it. :shrug:

Isn't that a business plan factor for 'online universities'? Same as health clubs, etc.? Get the money upfront while maintaining operational expense consistency with dropouts replaced by new paying customers?