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dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 09:24 AM
Well, I've now done my patriotic duty for the day. It only took about half an hour to vote and it looked like the line was shorter as I left than it was when I arrived, so maybe everything will go smoothly today, at least in Northern Philadelphia.

I was surprised to see so many Obama signs and posters plastered all over the place. I haven't kept up with what the courts have been ruling about that sort of thing, but it didn't quite seem kosher to have the example ballot poster flanked by giant pictures of one of the candidates. Someone had also left a stack of leaflets supporting their candidates of choice beside the line of voters; that also seemed spurious. And this at a public library no less, which strikes me as a place that should avoid any sort of partisan paraphenailia even when its not election day.

Anyway, for those posters who vote today, what was your experience like?

SMadsen
Nov 4th 2008, 10:28 AM
I've even heard that sometimes the local volunteers themselves, not just the pampflets, are allowed inside to continue the campaign until the voter gets into the booth. Is that just an urban legend?

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 10:42 AM
I think that it varies from state to state. Here you can't campaign within 200 feet of a polling place but you can wear buttons, shirts, and hats.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 11:22 AM
I've even heard that sometimes the local volunteers themselves, not just the pampflets, are allowed inside to continue the campaign until the voter gets into the booth. Is that just an urban legend?

In Canada, a (volunteer) representative of each official party is always present at all polling stations to witness the proceedings. They are also 'present' to witness the ballot counting procedure. They are not allowed to do anything but "witness".

And absolutely NO campaign literature or campaign activity is allowed anywhere near an offical polling station.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 11:24 AM
I think that it varies from state to state. Here you can't campaign within 200 feet of a polling place but you can wear buttons, shirts, and hats.
It varies by county.

The adjudication and management of the election process (as well as ballot counting) is unique to every single county in the USA (literally thousands of them) and entirely controled by local party officials. This is one of the biggest problems with US elections in my opinion.

This is why both parties are standing by right now with teams of "rapid-response" lawyers to do battle over various obscure rules in various counties used to favor one side or the other.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 01:53 PM
I'm just scanning some blogs right now and people are commenting about "long lines" to vote - with some bizarre sense of pride.

I can definitely say if it took more than 15 minutes to vote in person at any local polling station in Canada, there'd be riots up here demanding heads to roll for such incompetence.

The sight of a long line-up to vote is a disgrace that Americans ought to be incensed about. That's a systemic attempt to reduce voter turnout. Either it is massive and largescale incompetence or it is systematically malicious intent.

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 02:15 PM
I waited about ten minutes which is not the longest ever for me. I voted mostly democratic except for state senate since the democratic candidate was caught abusing power when a in the House of Representatives for giving perks to his girlfriend. I almost never vote for anybody that has been busted for ethics violations.

Dominick
Nov 4th 2008, 02:35 PM
Around what time would the final results be known ?

Donkey
Nov 4th 2008, 02:48 PM
People are proud of the long lines, I think, because in some way it's sort of "We're voting despite the adversity, dammit!" They aren't proud that the lines are long, but they are proud that people are out and voting anyway.

I personally did the dirty deed two weeks ago. Here on campus there are an increasing number of people flashing the I Voted stickers, but I suspect probably most will still be lame and not vote despite the fact that the precinct is in the Rec center...

But I think God, at least, cast his vote for Obama when he gave Cleveland (obviously an Obama stronghold where high turnout is crucial) 68 degrees and sunshine today.

Dominick: If Ohio and Virginia go Democrat, the night will be a relatively early one as far as being sure who wins. For senate and house races, though, we're talking well into tomorrow, since Alaska won't be counted for a long time.

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 02:55 PM
Makes me happy Oregon elections are all mail-in or drop-off. I have little patience for standing in line.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 03:00 PM
Around what time would the final results be known ?
It is reasonable to expect some clear information around 10pm EST. The election could be all over by then since several of the most important 'battleground' states are on the East coast time zone. If Obama takes Florida, Virginia and Pennsylvania, they will call it for him.

drgoodtrips
Nov 4th 2008, 04:03 PM
I just voted and there were no lines to speak of. I walked in, sat down immediately, and was out in less than 10 minutes. :)

SonofaHun
Nov 4th 2008, 05:02 PM
I voted early this morning in Kentucky. Then during lunch today, I took my mom to her polling place in Ohio. She's 79 and pays virtually no attention to politics. Basically, she asked me who my wife and I voted for, and then she voted the same way. So it was kind of like I got to vote twice. :D

Some general observations: In both places, there were no lines. In Kentucky, I voted at the local high school on a touch-screen voting system. It was very easy to use and it took only about one minute to complete the ballot. The polling location for my mom was the back room of a bowling alley. The ballot was huge (two long sheets, front and back). Selections where made by filling in big rectangular blocks with an ink pen. When the ballot was filled out, you then stuck it into an automatic scanner that read which blocks you filled in to compute your vote. The whole system seemed really archaic, but it was better than the punch-card system that Ohio had the last time I took my Mom to vote.

I noticed when we went to the bowling alley that the bar there was open and had a decent group of people drinking. In Kentucky, there are no alcohol sales during polling hours on election days. Good thing our polls close at 6 pm.

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 06:14 PM
Most likely the first results will be coming in about three hours from now but mainly from states on the east coast that are not close.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 06:44 PM
Most likely the first results will be coming in about three hours from now but mainly from states on the east coast that are not close.
Btw, Canada enacted a new law a few years ago that adjusted poll-closing times across the country and made it illegal for media to report ANY poll result from the East Coast before the West Coast polls close.

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 08:21 PM
Vermont called for Obama, Kentucky for McCain.

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 08:26 PM
Vermont called for Obama, Kentucky for McCain.

KY's part of Baptist land so that doesn't surprise me.

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 09:31 PM
Here's a decent presentation of federal and state results easily refreshed:

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/

(no affiliation, it was the first that popped up and I'm sure there are other equally efficient sites)

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 09:31 PM
I hear Liddy Dole is going down in NC!

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 09:34 PM
I hear Liddy Dole is going down in NC!

She's McCain's age, let's hope it's a trend.

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 09:44 PM
I'm shocked at how quickly they're coloring in states this time around. 3 networks have called PA for Obama with (as of now) less than one quarter of one percent of precincts reporting.
I expect the state will go blue, but this seems a little premature to me.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 09:49 PM
And they are reporting that Vigo County in Indiana is reporting with 90% of the vote showing a solid Obama lead there.

Apparently Vigo County Indiana has predicted the winner in every election going back to 1960. If Obama takes (traditionally Republican) Indiana, that would be a significant victory to make up for the surprisingly tight numbers coming out of Virginia.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 09:51 PM
I'm shocked at how quickly they're coloring in states this time around. 3 networks have called PA for Obama with (as of now) less than one quarter of one percent of precincts reporting.
I expect the state will go blue, but this seems a little premature to me.
I don't like the media 'calling' things like this at all.

That's what put Bush over the top in 2000 - Fox calling Florida for him when that just wasn't justified.

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 10:00 PM
So now, ABC, CNN and the AP has CALLED New Jersey for Obama despite the fact that MCCAIN is leading in the returns by 7%!!!

What's going on here? Are they relying entirely on exit polling or what?

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 10:03 PM
Michigan as well! Called for Obama even though he's losing by 7% among the 4% of precincts that are reporting.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 10:03 PM
So now, ABC, CNN and the AP has CALLED New Jersey for Obama despite the fact that MCCAIN is leading in the returns by 7%!!!

What's going on here? Are they relying entirely on exit polling or what?
I hope its not "exit polls".

It could be just base-line predictions. I can call Utah, Idaho, Oklahoma and Texas for McCain right now and California will go Obama. Don't need to see any vote numbers for that. New Jersey is heavily expected to go for Obama. I can't imagine McCain pulling off that kind of an upset.

And I see CNN has called PA - that seems surprising this early. I expected McCain to challenge here.

The Sister
Nov 4th 2008, 10:08 PM
Going by CNN Obama has 174 if you give him California, Oregon and Washington then he only needs 23 to win - if he gets Florida - that's it - isn't it?

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 10:10 PM
Going by CNN Obama has 174 if you give him California, Oregon and Washington then he only needs 23 to win - if he gets Florida - that's it - isn't it?

If Florida, Virginia, or Ohio go his way then it is really.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 10:13 PM
If Florida, Virginia, or Ohio go his way then it is really.
Two or three of Indiana, NC, Colorado, NM can do it too. I'd expect Obama to break 300.

Edited to add: NH Senate seat pickup! Sununu goes down.

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 10:16 PM
Is it not time for the traditional failure of ballot tabulating equipment to begin in key states or are we past that stage of corruption?

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 10:19 PM
I'm reading about some problems...

--Biggest nationwide problem are voter registration problems. Namely, registered voters are not appearing on the voter rolls, often in battleground states: Florida, New Jersey, New York, Colorado, and Ohio in Cuyoga and Franklin counties. It's mainly newly registered voters but there are some longtime registered voters who may have been purged for not matching a database.

--The long lines are a problem, but Virginia is especially bad. In some precincts, several machines broke down and some polling places didn't have backup paper ballots. Similar problems are being called in from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, in Florida, Michigan, New York, and Missouri, where one poll book was sent to the wrong precinct. Good news from Miami, though: the lines are not as chaotic and long as they were during the early voting period.

--Many people have not received absentee ballots, and in Ohio and Florida (Palm Beach County) some absentee ballots have been disqualified on technicalities.

--Deceptive practices: There's been reports of "Democrats vote on Wednesday" type scams, in Suffolk County New York at the social services office, (where many Suffolk County voters register) there was a flier found urging the above. There was an incident at George Mason that has been well reported on.

--Student voting: The polling place near Virginia Tech was moved six miles away, after the local registrar spent weeks trying to discourage students from voting. There were similar problems of a registrar rejecting registrations from Radford University in Virginia, where hundreds of students were not able to register to vote. In Iowa, students have been facing voter challenges from local officials--note Obama's Iowa win last year had a lot to do with the students who turned out.

Source (http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped)

Edited to add: Bastard McConnell looks like he might hold on! :( Likewise with Chambliss in GA.

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 10:23 PM
Ohio just got called for Obama by both MSNBC and Fox News.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 10:25 PM
Apparentely MSNBC and FOX are calling Ohio for Obama...

If that all holds, then it looks like Obama has won it. :banana:

Only three Democratic Senate pickups so far...

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 10:38 PM
New Mexico goes to Obama. I hope Florida is projected for Obama so that these reporters can stop pretending it isn't over.

Michael
Nov 4th 2008, 10:46 PM
I think I can hear the fat lady singing for McCain's WH dreams...

Edited to add: Correction - Democrats have 4 Senate pickups so far (NH, NC, NM and Virginia)

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 10:47 PM
The only reasons the networks are not projecting it for Obama is that it makes people mad when they do that before polls have closed on the west coast. CNN just showed that even if McCain wins every state that isn't solidly blue from this point on he still loses.

Dominick
Nov 4th 2008, 10:50 PM
The only reasons the networks are not projecting it for Obama is that it makes people mad when they do that before polls have closed on the west coast. CNN just showed that even if McCain wins every state that isn't solidly blue from this point on he still loses.
Yeah, I saw that. It's a done deal I guess. If this were to switch yet, I'm turning conspiracy theorist :lol:

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 10:52 PM
New Mexico goes to Obama. I hope Florida is projected for Obama so that these reporters can stop pretending it isn't over.

With 4283 of 7005 Precincts Reporting Florida is still O 51% M 49%.

Americano
Nov 4th 2008, 10:57 PM
Ohio 2717 of 11156 Precincts Reporting is O 54%, M 45%.

I've looked at some exit polls and women are favoring Obama by a decent margin over Palin.

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 11:00 PM
The only reasons the networks are not projecting it for Obama is that it makes people mad when they do that before polls have closed on the west coast. CNN just showed that even if McCain wins every state that isn't solidly blue from this point on he still loses.

Yeah, McCain needs to flip either OH (where he's down by 9% with 23% reporting) or MI where he's closer (down by 4% with 17% reporting)...and win all the toss ups.

EDIT: This assumes (as I suppose CNN is assuming) the west cost goes entirely blue.

dilettante
Nov 4th 2008, 11:04 PM
I note that the popular vote numbers are still within 1% of each other though, that's kinda interesting given the large gap in projected electoral returns.

partofme
Nov 4th 2008, 11:45 PM
I note that the popular vote numbers are still within 1% of each other though, that's kinda interesting given the large gap in projected electoral returns.

True but California, Washington, Oregon, and Hawaii will change that quite a bit.

dilettante
Nov 5th 2008, 12:11 AM
CNN and CBS have called the election for Obama!

Now to see if the Dems get up to 60 in the Senate. Personally, I'm hoping they don't make it, as having two branches of government utterly and completely dominated by one party strikes me as a bad idea.

JHC
Nov 5th 2008, 12:30 AM
Hello all.

I was an early Obama supporter. One day, the phone rang from the local Obama "Campaign for Change" and the guy on the other end of the phone asked if I was going to vote for Obama. "Hell no! First, I disagree with his recent vote on FISA and second, he promises to increase the faith based initiative!" A month later, the same gentleman introduced me to the local campaign manager and I was making phone calls myself in 10 minutes.

I don't know how many miles I've walked or how many doors I knocked on but it's over now. Just watched McCain's concession speech. Lets hope we can follow through.

Dominick
Nov 5th 2008, 12:45 AM
Congrats to the Obama supporters :party::clap:

What I'm hoping for is a sensible foreign policy.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 12:56 AM
I love The Onion.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_shitty_enough_to

Dominick
Nov 5th 2008, 12:59 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/bush_can_i_stop_being_president

:D

Helene
Nov 5th 2008, 02:58 AM
Yay!

Palin scared me...

dilettante
Nov 5th 2008, 09:10 AM
Looks like the Republicans will have at least 41 seats in the Senate.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 09:35 AM
Hello all.

I was an early Obama supporter. One day, the phone rang from the local Obama "Campaign for Change" and the guy on the other end of the phone asked if I was going to vote for Obama. "Hell no! First, I disagree with his recent vote on FISA and second, he promises to increase the faith based initiative!" A month later, the same gentleman introduced me to the local campaign manager and I was making phone calls myself in 10 minutes.

I don't know how many miles I've walked or how many doors I knocked on but it's over now. Just watched McCain's concession speech. Lets hope we can follow through.
Congrats on getting involved!

And I admit, that FISA vote really shook me. I've never been a fan of him and I'm still not a 'fan' yet, but I sure am happy he won. Anything is better than Bush/more Bush.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 09:37 AM
If I had to pick a president that would never piss me off I would probably never get to vote again. :D

Dominick
Nov 5th 2008, 09:38 AM
Ouch. The grapes appear to be very sour in the other camp. How high are the chances of this becoming a 4-year non-stop smear campaign, partially motivated by blatant racism ?

SonofaHun
Nov 5th 2008, 09:39 AM
KY's part of Baptist land so that doesn't surprise me.

Me neither, but I was surprised at how well Obama did here anyway. He got 41% of the popular vote. I expected something more like 25-30%.

Wish we would have ousted Mitch McConnell, though.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 09:46 AM
Ouch. The grapes appear to be very sour in the other camp. How high are the chances of this becoming a 4-year non-stop smear campaign, partially motivated by blatant racism ?
Do you remember the Clinton years?

Pretty much guarenteed (sorry to say).

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 10:03 AM
Looks like the Republicans will have at least 41 seats in the Senate.
You counting Lieberman?

I'm still trying to find some final numbers on the Senate races... very glad to see Al Franken looks like he's won in Minnesota.

And I agree, I don't want the Democrats to beat 60. I just wanted to make sure the Democrats have enough to tell Joe to go fuck himself and strip him of his Committee Chair.

dilettante
Nov 5th 2008, 10:12 AM
You counting Lieberman?

I'm still trying to find some final numbers on the Senate races... very glad to see Al Franken looks like he's won in Minnesota.

And I agree, I don't want the Democrats to beat 60. I just wanted to make sure the Democrats have enough to tell Joe to go fuck himself and strip him of his Committee Chair.

No, I'm counting Lieberman as a Dem.

Looking at NPR (http://www.npr.org/news/specials/election2008/2008-election-map.html#/senate?view=race08) they show the Reps with 40 seats, but Chambliss is beating Martin in GA by 4% with 99% reporting; I don't know why they don't just call that one.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 10:27 AM
No, I'm counting Lieberman as a Dem.

Looking at NPR (http://www.npr.org/news/specials/election2008/2008-election-map.html#/senate?view=race08) they show the Reps with 40 seats, but Chambliss is beating Martin in GA by 4% with 99% reporting; I don't know why they don't just call that one.
Yes, Chambliss looks like he's going to hold GA. Seems silly with that kind of a margin not to call it.

SMadsen
Nov 5th 2008, 10:39 AM
Yes, Chambliss looks like he's going to hold GA. Seems silly with that kind of a margin not to call it.
GA is a tricky place. With the Russians and all.

dilettante
Nov 5th 2008, 10:45 AM
GA is a tricky place. With the Russians and all.

:) "Despite Chambliss' apparent lock on the election, Vladimir Putin manages to secure a Senate seat from the state of George..."

Thinking about Russia, their army, and politics gives a whole new meaning to "October surprise"...

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 10:49 AM
Minnesota Senate seems very close still - less than 600 votes between Coleman and Franken. This one is sure to have a 'recount'.

In other news, looks like Ted Stevens wins his seat in Alaska - making a good possibility that Sarah Palin could be the next Senator for Alaska (after a special election is called to replace Stevens who will be forced to resign his seat).

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 11:30 AM
Minnesota Senate seems very close still - less than 600 votes between Coleman and Franken. This one is sure to have a 'recount'.

In other news, looks like Ted Stevens wins his seat in Alaska - making a good possibility that Sarah Palin could be the next Senator for Alaska (after a special election is called to replace Stevens who will be forced to resign his seat).

Palin has the appetites to make Stevens look like a piker in the graft game.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 11:41 AM
Looks like Gordon Smith survived in Oregon. That surprises me. I figured he was going down for sure.

Democrats pickup Senate seats in VA, NH, NM and NC. Minnesota is still up in the air.

Looks like the Democrats didn't pickup nearly as many House or Senate seats as they looked like they could.

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 12:09 PM
Looks like Gordon Smith survived in Oregon. That surprises me. I figured he was going down for sure.

There's still a slim degree of hope. Smith currently has a 5,000 vote lead with 60% of ballots counted.

Democrats pickup Senate seats in VA, NH, NM and NC. Minnesota is still up in the air.

Looks like the Democrats didn't pickup nearly as many House or Senate seats as they looked like they could.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 12:10 PM
Btw, there was cars honking and street celebrations going on in Toronto last night - starting around 9:30.

Kind of odd for an election in another country... I wonder if there was any of that in other countries?

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 12:21 PM
Btw, there was cars honking and street celebrations going on in Toronto last night - starting around 9:30.

Kind of odd for an election in another country... I wonder if there was any of that in other countries?

Widespread:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/11/05/obama-reaction.html

All but Iraq, where the attitude is wait and see. Not surprising in a country the US has trashed.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 12:22 PM
I posted this elsewhere but I think it would make for good discussion here as well. Living in Kentucky it is hard to make too many friends that do not have some pretty out there positions and beliefs. I have a friend that I love on a personal level that sent out a Myspace bulletin that says American elected the Muslim Antichrist last night. It is pretty hard not to respond to that in a way that wouldn't hurt our friendship. Another one said we are now all fucked. Then yet another said may God help us all. I really hope Obama does a good job and proves them wrong.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 12:39 PM
I posted this elsewhere but I think it would make for good discussion here as well. Living in Kentucky it is hard to make too many friends that do not have some pretty out there positions and beliefs. I have a friend that I love on a personal level that sent out a Myspace bulletin that says American elected the Muslim Antichrist last night. It is pretty hard not to respond to that in a way that wouldn't hurt our friendship. Another one said we are now all fucked. Then yet another said may God help us all. I really hope Obama does a good job and proves them wrong.
You got some odd friends there partofme! ;)

But yes, I can't see how you can respond to that kind of ignorance.

Btw the "Muslim Antichrist" is a wonderfully colorfull and nonsense expression! :D

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 12:43 PM
I posted this elsewhere but I think it would make for good discussion here as well. Living in Kentucky it is hard to make too many friends that do not have some pretty out there positions and beliefs. I have a friend that I love on a personal level that sent out a Myspace bulletin that says American elected the Muslim Antichrist last night. It is pretty hard not to respond to that in a way that wouldn't hurt our friendship. Another one said we are now all fucked. Then yet another said may God help us all. I really hope Obama does a good job and proves them wrong.

I also have to separate politics and religion from some of my friendships to maintain them.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 12:54 PM
You got some odd friends there partofme! ;)

But yes, I can't see how you can respond to that kind of ignorance.

Btw the "Muslim Antichrist" is a wonderfully colorfull and nonsense expression! :D

Really it would be impossible to not have some friends like that and be social at all other than having a very small group of friends that shut everybody else out. Mostly it is because I had a small business which meant having employees that don't have very good educations and pretty much believe anything they are told. I know that sounds elitist in a way but it is pretty accurate anyway.

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 01:24 PM
Really it would be impossible to not have some friends like that and be social at all other than having a very small group of friends that shut everybody else out. Mostly it is because I had a small business which meant having employees that don't have very good educations and pretty much believe anything they are told. I know that sounds elitist in a way but it is pretty accurate anyway.

Believing what they were taught from childhood without higher education is a difficult if not impossible circumstance to escape.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 01:53 PM
Really it would be impossible to not have some friends like that and be social at all other than having a very small group of friends that shut everybody else out. Mostly it is because I had a small business which meant having employees that don't have very good educations and pretty much believe anything they are told. I know that sounds elitist in a way but it is pretty accurate anyway.
I suppose living in a big city like Toronto is way different than small town Kentucky...

I can't even imagine knowing anyone who would refer to Obama as a Muslim (or the antichrist) in anything but a joke.

You can make anti-Republican jokes up here with any group of people and they will all laugh knowingly. If Canada voted in the US election, it would be 90% to 10% for the Democrats up here.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 01:55 PM
Believing what they were taught from childhood without higher education is a difficult if not impossible circumstance to escape.
Not true. I think culture has a huge influence here.

Some of the most intelligent and knowledgable people I know are 'uneducated'. All it takes is some personal initiative/interest to rectify a lame education.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 02:07 PM
Did anybody see this? I must say I'm a little shocked that Nader would say something like that even though I get the point he was trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 02:08 PM
Some bad news on the 'gay-rights' front as quite a few ballot initiatives passed in Florida, Arizona and California.

That's a reminder that Obama's election is not the 'watershed' of progressivism that the lefties are crowing about.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 02:09 PM
I suppose living in a big city like Toronto is way different than small town Kentucky...

I can't even imagine knowing anyone who would refer to Obama as a Muslim (or the antichrist) in anything but a joke.

You can make anti-Republican jokes up here with any group of people and they will all laugh knowingly. If Canada voted in the US election, it would be 90% to 10% for the Democrats up here.

It varies by regions and Kentucky is a very conservative state. It was the first to be called for McCain last night. However, I would say that there are probably more republican supporters in the most liberal states then there would be in Canada. I'm not sure I would want the country to move far to the left but I would like to see it shift a little.

Michael
Nov 5th 2008, 02:09 PM
Did anybody see this? I must say I'm a little shocked that Nader would say something like that even though I get the point he was trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo
Nader's been saying a lot of jackass stupid things for a long time now. This is no different.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 02:11 PM
Some bad news on the 'gay-rights' front as quite a few ballot initiatives passed in Florida, Arizona and California.

That's a reminder that Obama's election is not the 'watershed' of progressivism that the lefties are crowing about.

One irony is that in regards to Proposition 8 in California he probably hurts the fight for marriage equality since it means a large African American turnout and they tend to be socially conservative and more homophobic than the nation as a whole.

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 02:12 PM
Not true. I think culture has a huge influence here.

Some of the most intelligent and knowledgable people I know are 'uneducated'. All it takes is some personal initiative/interest to rectify a lame education.

I disagree. They're immersed in that culture and mentally dominated by like-minded peer groups with any dissension being a socially unaccepted opinion to a point of being culturally trapped. In a broader society I agree change is possible and probable, but in my experience not in these small towns.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 02:12 PM
Nader's been saying a lot of jackass stupid things for a long time now. This is no different.

I agree but this is just way too far. You know it's bad when Fox News is taking the high road in the discussion. Then again Sheppard Smith is the one credible voice over there in my opinion.

Americano
Nov 5th 2008, 02:18 PM
One irony is that in regards to Proposition 8 in California he probably hurts the fight for marriage equality since it means a large African American turnout and they tend to be socially conservative and more homophobic than the nation as a whole.

Here's an interesting bit of trivia about CA's prop. 8:

"With over ten million and making up nearly one third of the state population, California has the most Roman Catholics of any other state in the USA. At one million, two hundred and forty thousand, it also has the largest Muslim population in the USA. California has half a million Mormons, half a million Southern Baptists, and a million American Jews.
Total count: 13 million adherents to various religions all of which have strong traditional stances against equal consideration for homosexuals."

Utah lead the fight to pass prop. 8.

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 03:23 PM
I was just listening to NPR and it was stated that according to exit polls the youth vote did break a record as far as the numbers go but as a percentage of voters it was about the same since turnout was higher across the board.

Dominick
Nov 5th 2008, 03:38 PM
Did anybody see this? I must say I'm a little shocked that Nader would say something like that even though I get the point he was trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo
I don't get the problem, at least not in respect to Nader. The talking head though seems to be unaware that Stowe's novel was a pivotal anti-slavery text.
What am I missing ?

partofme
Nov 5th 2008, 04:18 PM
I don't get the problem, at least not in respect to Nader. The talking head though seems to be unaware that Stowe's novel was a pivotal anti-slavery text.
What am I missing ?

Basically that Nader was trying to inject race and a racially charged term when it just wasn't needed or relevant to what he was saying. It seemed to me like a desperate cry for attention by using shock. A white guy calling somebody a term that means something like "acting white" when used among blacks just seemed inappropriate on a night that such a huge barrier was broken through. I'm one of the last people that is politically correct but it was a shitty thing to say and showed no class at all. I'm also willing to bet that it hurt him in terms of him being taken even less seriously.

Donkey
Nov 5th 2008, 04:25 PM
The electoral college numbers surprised me.

I'm pretty content. I didn't make it home last night. Cheap vodka. Champagne. Funny hats.

Helene
Nov 6th 2008, 02:38 AM
I don't get the problem, at least not in respect to Nader. The talking head though seems to be unaware that Stowe's novel was a pivotal anti-slavery text.
What am I missing ?

In the original work, uncle Tom was not actually someone who could be called "an uncle Tom". In later adaptations of the work for the stage, the character was changed into a much weaker individual, who was trying to gain the approval of white people by betraying black people (and feeling superior to other black people because of this approval).

The reason the use of the phrase by Nadar is an issue is because it's a racial slur. The question Nadar asks is valid in itself, but it's only because Barack is black that he can use the slur. If Barack had been white, the racist comment couldn't/wouldn't have been made.