Military indoctrination of children, problem?

[MeMyselfAndI]

In university we were discussing child soldiers recently. Everyone talked about Africa; Afghanistan/Central Asia; but I did some research, and I discovered that we have this in Russia too. The Cossacks. They train their children to fight since very early age.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs441.ash1/24332_101488453227826_100001000150477_10264_421058 2_n.jpg

In camps like these: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488683227803_100001000150477_10271_150778 7_n.jpg

Children are taught to, well, kill, basically. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488663227805_100001000150477_10268_654161 2_n.jpg
Girls have their roles, boys have theirs: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs421.snc3/24332_101488673227804_100001000150477_10269_453751 3_n.jpghttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488203227851_100001000150477_10259_652536 4_n.jpg

The children are also indoctrinated in Orthodox Christian faith: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs531.snc3/30144_430338876557_721246557_5942171_448553_n.jpg

Do you guys think this is normal?
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs531.snc3/30144_430336646557_721246557_5942090_4485130_n.jpg
http://rutube.ru/tracks/1325989.html?v=32f10aacec73903e28814e52ceb47097
I know for a fact that some '15-year old soldiers' joined the fighting in Chechnya, defending their Cossack villages there, when there was not enough adult men.

They are taught they have no other future than the armed forces; their main purpose, the reason they are born, is to defend Russia. War, they are told, is their life.

[Americano]

In university we were discussing child soldiers recently. Everyone talked about Africa; Afghanistan/Central Asia; but I did some research, and I discovered that we have this in Russia too. The Cossacks. They train their children to fight since very early age.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs441.ash1/24332_101488453227826_100001000150477_10264_421058 2_n.jpg

In camps like these: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488683227803_100001000150477_10271_150778 7_n.jpg

Children are taught to, well, kill, basically. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488663227805_100001000150477_10268_654161 2_n.jpg
Girls have their roles, boys have theirs: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs421.snc3/24332_101488673227804_100001000150477_10269_453751 3_n.jpghttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs401.snc3/24332_101488203227851_100001000150477_10259_652536 4_n.jpg

The children are also indoctrinated in Orthodox Christian faith: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs531.snc3/30144_430338876557_721246557_5942171_448553_n.jpg

Do you guys think this is normal?
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs531.snc3/30144_430336646557_721246557_5942090_4485130_n.jpg
http://rutube.ru/tracks/1325989.html?v=32f10aacec73903e28814e52ceb47097
I know for a fact that some '15-year old soldiers' joined the fighting in Chechnya, defending their Cossack villages there, when there was not enough adult men.

They are taught they have no other future than the armed forces; their main purpose, the reason they are born, is to defend Russia. War, they are told, is their life.

I've read what I consider factual stories of Afghanistan males as young as 12 being proficient with the AK47 and prepared to serve at the whim of their father, clan or tribe. Cultures die hard.

To me interesting in that from what I can gather Chechan are considered the most ruthless members of Russian Mafia in the US. Feared by all for their complete lack of mercy and employed for that quality, I'd have to relate that to their Cossack heritage.

[MeMyselfAndI]

I've read what I consider factual stories of Afghanistan males as young as 12 being proficient with the AK47 and prepared to serve at the whim of their father, clan or tribe. Cultures die hard.

To me interesting in that from what I can gather Chechan are considered the most ruthless members of Russian Mafia in the US. Feared by all for their complete lack of mercy and employed for that quality, I'd have to relate that to their Cossack heritage.

Umm, no. Chechens and Cossacks are two different people. Chechens are Caucasian, Muslim people. Cossacks are, well, mixed, but mostly Slavic, Orthodox Christian people. But, yes, Chechens are bad. And Cossacks are one force in Caucasus that are as bad, as ruthless, as violent, and as... I don't know, completely fearless and brutal as the Chechens. That is why I agree that Russia and North Caucasus need Cossacks. To match the Chechens ;) Balance of power.

[Greendruid]

This is a really tough one. The perpetuation of culture is closely tied with religion. Home is the first socialising agent in the life of a child. Despite how much we may try, we are always bound to carry some values from that period of our lives into adulthood. If we provide no structure for children to grow up in, we produce children who become adults without structure or respect for structure or cultural rules. Ultimately, children have to live in society. More than likely this involves living in the society they are born into but not always. In thinking about my own son I imagine how he will be taught our pagan values and those that relate to how we feel it is essential to "defend" the earth, natural cycles, self-sustainability, etc. I won't be putting a Kalashnikov into his hands at the age of 12 but he will be proficient with a pitch fork and probably a knife in order to just do the things we do in our daily lives. This is our culture and value system and it is just as closely linked to our religious beliefs as the above example. I suppose that the distinction is that I won't be teaching him how to undertake armed combat, not that I could even bestow those lessons upon him to begin with. He won't be actively taught to kill people but will rather be taught to respect life. Two sides of the same coin?

[Michael]

I thought I posted in this thread, but I guess not!

I was going to raise the fact that the proposed UN Convention on Child Soldiers met considerable opposition amongst the USA, UK, Russia and China.

While it might be nice to ban child-soldiers, I think that is entirely unrealistic given that indoctrination of children seems to be necessary for countries to maintain large and aggressive armies.

I hate to say it, but soldiering seems to have this in common with religion - either you inherit the disposition for it with your mother's milk or you don't have it at all. In other words, large national armies and large national religions both depend upon the indoctrination of children for their continued existence.

[Americano]

I thought I posted in this thread, but I guess not!

I was going to raise the fact that the proposed UN Convention on Child Soldiers met considerable opposition amongst the USA, UK, Russia and China.

While it might be nice to ban child-soldiers, I think that is entirely unrealistic given that indoctrination of children seems to be necessary for countries to maintain large and aggressive armies.

I hate to say it, but soldiering seems to have this in common with religion - either you inherit the disposition for it with your mother's milk or you don't have it at all. In other words, large national armies and large national religions both depend upon the indoctrination of children for their continued existence.

Cannon fodder is generally uneducated, unskilled and prone to belief in faith, be it nationalism, religion or in the US wages and benefits far superior to what's available in the private sector for that demographic.

[Non Sequitur]

Cannon fodder is generally uneducated, unskilled and prone to belief in faith, be it nationalism, religion or in the US wages and benefits far superior to what's available in the private sector for that demographic.

"Prone to belief in faith" you act like that's a bad thing :lol:

[Americano]

"Prone to belief in faith" you act like that's a bad thing :lol:

I guess my mother's milk didn't include that component. I discarded the concept of religious faith at an early age and the ramifications of nationalism on my personal life became apparent as soon as I was out in the world on my own. I consider nationalism a commodity many accept at face value. Like any commodity, it is successfully sold to eager buyers who have no idea what the product actually is, primarily manipulation.

[Non Sequitur]

I guess my mother's milk didn't include that component. I discarded the concept of religious faith at an early age and the ramifications of nationalism on my personal life became apparent as soon as I was out in the world on my own. I consider nationalism a commodity many accept at face value. Like any commodity, it is successfully sold to eager buyers who have no idea what the product actually is, primarily manipulation.
just pushing buttons :D

I agree with your point about nationalism. it does resemble religion.

[Americano]

just pushing buttons :D

I agree with your point about nationalism. it does resemble religion.

Both are dependent on faith, the circular argument always encountered in those discussions.

[Non Sequitur]

Both are dependent on faith, the circular argument always encountered in those discussions.
Sure I just happen to prefer one circular argument over the other :D

[Michael]

Sure I just happen to prefer one circular argument over the other :D

Well played! :thumbsup:

If religion stands on faith alone, it cannot be rationally defeated by secular reason. ;)

Religion runs into trouble when it makes any claim of secular reasoning (as that opens the door).

[Non Sequitur]

Well played! :thumbsup:

If religion stands on faith alone, it cannot be rationally defeated by secular reason. ;)

Religion runs into trouble when it makes any claim of secular reasoning (as that opens the door).

The Catholics and Reformed folk would not be happy with me for that comment, but I am a fideist :lol: