Battle of Karánsebes

[Daktoria]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karansebes

:facepalm:

[Michael]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karansebes

:facepalm:

The only thing that is even remotely surprising about this Battle is that the result isn't all that common (though there are many examples of similar events). Indeed, the US military routinely kills its own by accident.

Fact is, organizing armies in the fog of war is inherently challenging. And they say that for those with only a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Well, to an army with guns, everything looks like an enemy. :shrug:

One is reminded of either the infamous Charge of the Light Brigade, or alternatively, Rupert of the Rhine's silly cavalry charge right off the battlefield at Naseby and out of the battle. Both were 'stupid, stupid' battle-losing actions that make no sense what-so-ever.

Edited to add: I compliment your smilie usage - that one is absolutely perfect! :lol:

[Daktoria]

Thanks for the compliment about the headslap.

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Do selfish and fiesty drunks really qualify as fog of war?

I mean c'mon, soldiers are supposed to have a certain amount of decorum. The idea of 10,000 soldiers dying because some envious and out of control troops called other drunk troops the enemy is quite embarrassing for an Emperor dumped into the river.

The most important lesson from something like this is to realize how selfish, wise guy, provocateurs don't really care about the well being or the consequences of their actions. Tons of innocent men died in this incident who had nothing to do with the victims of their attention whoring.

The Emperor has some blame as well for not rigorously ensuring the discipline of his forces, but those infantry who called the cavalry Turks are some mighty fucked up pricks. The cavalry misbehaved for not sticking to their mission, but the infantry weren't any better by demanding to share in the spoils.

[Michael]

Do selfish and fiesty drunks really qualify as fog of war?
Yes. History provides several examples related to this phenomenon. Soldiers apparently do like their liquor.

For example, Alexander's troops got drunk and torched Persepolis despite Alexander's orders to the contrary. And who can forget the drunken rampage from Charles V's mercenaries who sacked Rome? That was a huge black mark against Charles V.

But there are many examples of smaller battles won because the other side was drunk. Indeed, it seems like it might have been used as a strategy in the North American Indian Wars.

I mean c'mon, soldiers are supposed to have a certain amount of decorum. The idea of 10,000 soldiers dying because some envious and out of control troops called other drunk troops the enemy is quite embarrassing for an Emperor dumped into the river.
Embarrassing yes, but not entirely unheard of.

The most important lesson from something like this is to realize how selfish, wise guy, provocateurs don't really care about the well being or the consequences of their actions. Tons of innocent men died in this incident who had nothing to do with the victims of their attention whoring.
I think a better lesson from something like this is to observe the folly of human ambition to control human events with machine like precision.

Innocent men are always dying for the foolish ambitions and egos of 'great men'. What difference does it make if they die for the folly of some drunken bastard? I don't see much difference.

The Emperor has some blame as well for not rigorously ensuring the discipline of his forces, but those infantry who called the cavalry Turks are some mighty fucked up pricks. The cavalry misbehaved for not sticking to their mission, but the infantry weren't any better by demanding to share in the spoils.
The Roman Senate voted to give Octavian Caesar a triumph for defeating a Roman Army. :shrug:

After that, there can be no honor in military service. None. All gone.