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Michael
Mar 12th 2010, 08:36 PM
This is an essay taken from the New Statesman (http://www.newstatesman.com/contents/2010/02/15), a British magazine, known for being 'moderate left'. The current issue has a special focus on Muslim culture.

For those of you unfamiliar with the name of Tariq Ramadan, suffice it to say that he is a rather famous 'Muslim intellectual' with impressive western education credentials. Here's the Wiki page for Tariq Ramadan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ramadan). Quite an interesting fellow. ;)

Good Muslim, bad Muslim
by Tariq Ramadan

Tariq Ramadan argues for a new understanding of what it means to be a “moderate” Muslim.


Article (http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2010/02/muslim-religious-moderation)

I'm not going to quote the whole essay, though I certainly recommend it. Its not very long, but too large to quote entirely.

I'll just cite two interesting paragraphs that show you where this fellow is coming from...

Those of us who consider ourselves reformists are often attacked in internal Muslim debates for having "gone out of Islam" in our search for context and new understandings of religious texts. In the west, as well as in Asia and Africa, including in some Muslim-majority countries, I have repeatedly been called a kafir (disbeliever), a murtad (apostate) or an impostor seeking to adulterate Islam and destroy it from within. This happens to a large number of Muslim reformists - who, paradoxically, are at the same time considered "fundamentalist" and "extremist" within some right-wing circles in the west.

...

I have had personal experience of these shifting definitions. The Washington Post once described me as the "Muslim Martin Luther", only for the Sun to then tar me as an "Islamic militant". In 2003, I was received at the US state department as an "open" and "moderate" Muslim. Less than a year later, under the same Bush administration, my criticism of American policy in Iraq and Palestine (where I recognise the legitimacy of the resistance without in any way condoning attacks against civilians and non-combatants) had transformed me into a potential "supporter of terrorism" and "extremist". I was forbidden entry into the United States. Then, six years later, the terrorism- and extremism-related accusations were dropped by the US authorities. The Obama administration has decided that my opinions are not dangerous and that I may be useful to the critical debate around Islam: I am now allowed to travel to the United States.

Indeed, this must be quite challenging to live with on a personal level.

Anyway, the whole point of this thread, besides plugging Tariq Ramadan's name, is to draw attention to key point of Ramadan's essay - that 'moderation' is indeed a core Islamic value and that this interpretation is the dominant one throughout most Islamic societies and nations.

But what is most interesting, or perhaps surprising to me, is that Tariq Ramadan concludes his essay with this paragraph:

There exists a strictly religious debate, couched in the language of Islamic jurisprudence and the fundamentals of faith, over the notion of moderation. If this is grasped - as it must be - it becomes possible to approach the more relevant political questions with far less prejudice and naivety. We should never forget that religious moderation, however it is defined, is perfectly compatible with a radical, non-violent, democratic political stance that rejects all forms of domination, exploitation and oppression.
I suppose one can't help but to look for signs of the 'long awaited' Islamic reformation! :lol:

Though, to be fair and not just a cheerleader here, I must point out that Tariq Ramadan's argument is that 'moderation' is a 'mainstream' value of Islamic culture, but in the final analysis, he points to a religious debate where it is hoped that 'moderation' might win the day? :ummm:

Though, that's not really a critique of Tariq Ramadan - that is perhaps another typical paradox of society and culture, not much different than the 'strictly political debate' about torture going on in the USA, seemingly at odds with 'mainstream' values of a post-Englightenment Christian-based culture, and one also hopes that 'rationalism' might win the day.

Non Sequitur
Mar 13th 2010, 01:51 AM
I suppose one can't help but to look for signs of the 'long awaited' Islamic reformation! :lol:

Before I say this, let me preface it by saying I am a Lutheran and I think the Reformation ended up being a very good thing.

That being said, the reformation was socially chaotic and there were negatives that came out of it. I'm not quite sure I would wish it upon the Muslim world.

Though, to be fair and not just a cheerleader here, I must point out that Tariq Ramadan's argument is that 'moderation' is a 'mainstream' value of Islamic culture, but in the final analysis, he points to a religious debate where it is hoped that 'moderation' might win the day? :ummm:

Though, that's not really a critique of Tariq Ramadan - that is perhaps another typical paradox of society and culture, not much different than the 'strictly political debate' about torture going on in the USA, seemingly at odds with 'mainstream' values of a post-Englightenment Christian-based culture, and one also hopes that 'rationalism' might win the day.

It requires a kind of faith that things won't spin completely out of control :D

Michael
Mar 13th 2010, 10:11 AM
Before I say this, let me preface it by saying I am a Lutheran and I think the Reformation ended up being a very good thing.

That being said, the reformation was socially chaotic and there were negatives that came out of it. I'm not quite sure I would wish it upon the Muslim world.



It requires a kind of faith that things won't spin completely out of control :D
Indeed, this is very true. As much as I think Islam could benefit from some kind of reformation, I'm no fool. I do know how much bloodshed was unleashed in Europe with its reformation. The old guard will never permit a peaceful religious reformation.

But then again, our 'data-set' on religious reformations is indeed quite small, so we don't know for certain that bloodshed will be the guarenteed result (just a highly probable one).

Zarquon
Mar 13th 2010, 11:27 AM
Indeed, this is very true. As much as I think Islam could benefit from some kind of reformation, I'm no fool. I do know how much bloodshed was unleashed in Europe with its reformation. The old guard will never permit a peaceful religious reformation.

But then again, our 'data-set' on religious reformations is indeed quite small, so we don't know for certain that bloodshed will be the guarenteed result (just a highly probable one).
Plenty of bloodshed occurs senselessly as it is, if it occurs as a collateral for something worthwhile, why not?

Michael
Mar 13th 2010, 11:57 AM
Plenty of bloodshed occurs senselessly as it is, if it occurs as a collateral for something worthwhile, why not?

That's a good point. Islam is already suffering serious political problems and bloodshed in a variety of places around the globe.

But one can't be sure of the outcome at all. Any analysis of our 'western' Reformation shows that the political and military power of the 'counter-reformation-reactionaries' was (on paper) many times larger than the smaller and somewhat isolated protestant pockets.

It is to be noted that the protestant reformation was also running in a 'political tandem' with capitalism, thus giving them a powerful structural edge against their reactionary opponents who sought to preserve not just a 'religious status quo' but also the social, political and economic status quo of their respective nations.

In this respect, the Reformation in Europe represents a kind of 'political realignment' - the kind that naturally follows from times of radical socio-economic change - which is exactly what was going on in the 15th to 17th centuries as capitalist-style trade and production systems dislodged landed wealth as the dominant economic-political force of society. Where this process was most advanced, the protestants were most successful (Holland, northwest Germany and England). Where the process of adoption of capitalism was somewhat slower and less advanced (France, Hungary, Czecho and northern Italy), the protestants were mostly crushed by force of arms. Where capitalism was least present (Spain, southern France, southern Italy and Eastern Europe) there was virtually no protestant movement to speak of.

On this basis, I'm inclined to conclude that socio-economic changes are the real and true driving force of any religious reformation. There is nothing about Luther's criticisms that was original to Luther. Those same criticisms had been made time and time again over the centuries without any large scale protest movement arrising. But when Luther did it, the socio-economic times were 'ripe' for reformation.

Therefore, I'm inclined to look for some such political-economic divisions within the Islamic world, as they would appear to be necessary for any 'reformation' to take place. At present, I don't think I see much vibrancy or innovation in any Islamic political regime these days.

If anything, I'd say that the present 'zeitgeist' seems to favor the reactionaries. :shrug:

MeMyselfAndI
May 14th 2010, 09:58 PM
Not all Muslim people are bad people, terrorists, whatever like that. That is the mistake people make, even here in Moscow after the Metro explosions; Muslims were attacked all over the city. One Muslim migrant worker was shot, wounded, a few hours later, in a mass brawl between Muslim and Orthodox Christian Slavic youth, a young Muslim man from Caucasus was shot and stabbed to death. A Muslim woman was thrown out of a Metro train car (which, luckily, was not moving at the time). A hostel housing Muslim Central Asian migrant workers was bombed, 3 people injured; a Muslim Halal store in Saint Petersburg also bombed, again three hurt, one still in a coma. And all the words I heard, 'Muslims need to get out!', 'Stop letting Muslim murderers into our city!', and that one, infamous now 'Russia for Russkis!'. And police going through people's apartments at random, just because they are Muslim; searching their things; stopping people on the street who look Muslim and/or Caucasian, demanding their documents, detaining them if they don't have any.

People were acting so paranoid. Not that I do not understand.