Local Fuel Prices

[Greendruid]

I noticed that this thread didn't get rebuilt yet and so I thought I'd re-post it or at least start the ball rolling again. Please feel free to move it to the appropriate place Michael.

Friday Nova Scotia gas price change:

$1.04.8/L

Fell from last week's level of:

$1.06.9/L

[Michael]

It will be interesting to see the comparisons as the price of oil drops in half from what it was a month or two ago.

$1.01 per L is the price I'm seeing right now.

[Michael]

$0.96 per L this week!

[Greendruid]

Friday Nova Scotia gas change:

$0.98.4/L

This is the first time in months that I can remember paying less that $1 per litre. Those poor oil barons must be suffering some bad. :rolleyes:

[Michael]

$0.89 per L yesterday. Prices continue to fall at the pump.

[Dominick]

1.256 €/l
A fill-up of the little gas guzzler is now 40€ less than a few months ago.

[Donkey]

We're at around $2.05 USD here, I think. I don't know, I haven't bought gas in months.

[Michael]

$0.76 per L right now... prices falling fast. That's a 25% price drop at the pumps in 4 weeks!

News stories have indicated that Toronto/southern Ontario consistently has the lowest gas prices in all of Canada.

[partofme]

$1.67 a gallon yesterday.

[Greendruid]

$0.83.2/L as of Nova Scotia's Friday price change. BTW, this price is different depending on which part of the province you live in. Regulated gouging for those in more rural areas - gotta love our socialist utopia!

[Greendruid]

Forgot to post last Friday, December 5th:

80.7¢ per litre

This Friday, December 12th:

75.3¢ per litre :eek: I just filled my mini-van (farm vehicle) for $45. I've never been able to do that folks. My regular commuting car (Toyota Corolla) will probably be under $25 this week if I fill it, maybe less if I can wait a week. Oil is ... abundant all of a sudden again?

[Michael]

Yeah, down to around $0.72/L around here. Amazing.

As for the fluctuating price, that does make a bit of sense actually - given that the 'real' cost of oil on the market is mostly under $20 per barrel (under $5 for the Saudis) so that the inflated price of oil is entirely dependent upon market conditions (which tend to fluctuate given the fact that the oil market is a futures market).

My theory is that the price run up at the beginning of this year was due to projections showing that present consumption was going to hit the present production ceiling. That produced a huge price spike (probably overshot the 'ideal' market price). Then the high prices and the rising recession caused a world-wide demand to drop rather unexpectedly - most notably in the USA where car driving is down some 5-6%. That drop in demand returned the market to a 'surplus supply' situation and thus, the price drop (which is also probably overshot the 'ideal' market price).

The extraordinary low-cost of oil production (notably by the Saudis) makes it easy for them to push the price down. The Saudis have a strong vested interest in keeping the price of oil down to manageable levels. If the price gets too high, that encourages a switch away from oil. The Saudis don't want that. Thus, the push to get the oil price down.

Bottom line is that world oil demand is still going to outgrow world oil production in the very near future (within the next 2-3 years) and that's going to send the price of oil rising very high. We have a temporary respite in the price rise of oil - enjoy it while it lasts because it probably won't last any longer than this recession.

[Americano]

Yeah, down to around $0.72/L around here. Amazing.

As for the fluctuating price, that does make a bit of sense actually - given that the 'real' cost of oil on the market is mostly under $20 per barrel (under $5 for the Saudis) so that the inflated price of oil is entirely dependent upon market conditions (which tend to fluctuate given the fact that the oil market is a futures market).

My theory is that the price run up at the beginning of this year was due to projections showing that present consumption was going to hit the present production ceiling. That produced a huge price spike (probably overshot the 'ideal' market price). Then the high prices and the rising recession caused a world-wide demand to drop rather unexpectedly - most notably in the USA where car driving is down some 5-6%. That drop in demand returned the market to a 'surplus supply' situation and thus, the price drop (which is also probably overshot the 'ideal' market price).

The extraordinary low-cost of oil production (notably by the Saudis) makes it easy for them to push the price down. The Saudis have a strong vested interest in keeping the price of oil down to manageable levels. If the price gets too high, that encourages a switch away from oil. The Saudis don't want that. Thus, the push to get the oil price down.

Bottom line is that world oil demand is still going to outgrow world oil production in the very near future (within the next 2-3 years) and that's going to send the price of oil rising very high. We have a temporary respite in the price rise of oil - enjoy it while it lasts because it probably won't last any longer than this recession.

Which brings up my favorite subject, what conditions are going to provide recovery in the US. A debtor nation, service economy 72% driven by consumer spending hampered by stagnated wages and massive personal debt is going to be a long, hard road. Post-ww1 Germany tried printing money to resolve a similar circumstance and we all know how that fared. So many one billion Reichmark bills were printed they were used for fires as they were worth less than coal.

[Michael]

Which brings up my favorite subject, what conditions are going to provide recovery in the US. A debtor nation, service economy 72% driven by consumer spending hampered by stagnated wages and massive personal debt is going to be a long, hard road. Post-ww1 Germany tried printing money to resolve a similar circumstance and we all know how that fared. So many one billion Reichmark bills were printed they were used for fires as they were worth less than coal.

I believe that Adam Smith's infamous 'invisible hand of the market' will address all issues eventually (if the market-centralizers in Washington don't interfere too much). Indeed, the present crisis has done wonders for reducing that long running negative 'balance of payments' deficit that economists have been warning about for so long. It was unsustainable and the partial-collapse of the US financial system has put a huge dent in foreigners buying in the US debt-issue markets. Only the US Treasuries are selling now and the proportion of them being sold 'off-shore' is decreasing right now.

Likewise with US consumer spending running at 110% of US consumer income. That was not sustainable and now it has ended. US national savings rate is still zero, but when the inflation blowback comes in a year or two from the present round of extreme-low interest rates, money-pumping 'stimulus' packages and bank bailouts, interest rates will rise steeply and that ought to increase the US national savings rate into the black (while double-digit interest rates will likely wipe out the credit card foolishness with bankrupcty writedowns).

All in due time, the market does appear to be 'correcting' all those 'imbalances' in the US economy that economists have been harping about for the last dozen years. The US government had plenty of opportunities to 'direct' the necessary changes. They didn't. Now the market is doing it for them (and it isn't pretty).

As it stands, the 'best-case-scenario' is that the US is experiencing the longest, deepest and harshest economic downturn since the 1930's and will remain in this status for the rest of 2009. Best-case (rational) preditictions are consistent in calling 2010-Q1 as the first sign of US economic recovery. That will be a full two-year run with the economy essentially flat (US economy turned 'flat' beginning in December 2007).

In other words, the US economy is the largest, most diverse and most dynamic on the planet. It is dragged down by an unregulated financial sector that is driven by blind faith and sleight of hand accounting tricks - and governments that are addicted to the tax revenues that come from the financial sector-driven asset bubbles. A bad/corrupted economy starts at the top. Most of the US economic problems (except the consumer's negative savings rate) are essentially 'top-driven'. For one thing, the US government has to stop giving 'tax preference' to corporations who offshore their workforce. That's really hurting the US economy - leaving it with only the low-paid service economy and a monster-bloated financial services industry. This reduction in 'diversity' is hurting the overall strength of the US economy.

The US can and will recover from all this, but lets hope that they can do it without just re-inflating the bubble. If they just reinflate the bubble, we get to repeat this game again in 8-9 years when the cycle returns with a vengence - and the double-nasty of high inflation as well. There is NOTHING worse than encountering the next recessionary downturn with inflation running in double digits. That eliminates the 'drop interest rates' fiscal option so beloved of American politicians and the Federal Reserve. Then what do you do?

(sorry for the digression... this discussion should probably be in anther thread)

[Michael]

Filled up at 69.4 per L yesterday.

[Greendruid]

71.5¢/L was the change on Friday. Closing the gap between our regions it seems!

[Dominick]

1.183 €/l the other day.
When crude oil goes up, local prices go up just as fast. When crude oil goes down, it takes months to trickle down.

[Donkey]

1.183 €/l the other day.
When crude oil goes up, local prices go up just as fast. When crude oil goes down, it takes months to trickle down.
Trickle down economics. :)

[Dominick]

Trickle down economics. :)
:lol:
Yeah, that, or a massive rip-off.

[Michael]

1.183 €/l the other day.
When crude oil goes up, local prices go up just as fast. When crude oil goes down, it takes months to trickle down.
Well, to be reasonable about it, most prices NEVER EVER actually go down. The price of local fuel actually does 'trickledown' eventually. That's more than I can say for most other products out there.

[Greendruid]

$0.889/L here since Friday. I forgot about this thread for a while!

[Dominick]

Some helpful stuff:

1 € / liter = 1.3 US $ / liter = 4.92 US$ / US gallon

1 € / liter = 1.575 CAN $ / liter = 5.96 CAN $ / US gallon

So, 1.183 €/l is no less than 5.82 US$ / US gallon

[Michael]

I filled up yesterday at $83.9/L

That converts to $2.65 USD per US gallon.

[Michael]

Gas prices here have been bouncing around all over the place - in a range between $0.78 and $0.85 Cdn per Litre over the last two weeks, up and down every few days.

[Americano]

I filled up yesterday at $83.9/L

That converts to $2.65 USD per US gallon.

$2.09 here in Oregon (regular grade). There hasn't been much movement in oil futures due to decreasing demand. I know from a friend that domestic exploration and development is being sharply curtailed due to that lack of demand and would think refining capability will eventually be reduced to drive margin requirements. With the global economic decline I don't foresee demand increasing.

[Greendruid]

91.2¢/L as of last Friday. With gains on oil today I'm sure this will increase tomorrow. My prediction for here is 94.5¢/L.

[Michael]

$80.7 per litre here two days ago when I filled up.

[Greendruid]

Yet another reason you shouldn't take economic advice from anthropologists - today's change in gas price was a pleasant drop to 85.6¢/L.

[Michael]

Gas prices were $0.92 per litre here and this price has been fairly steady for the last couple of months.

That translates to about $3.00 per gallon in US.

[Americano]

$2.75/reg here. Stable since before and including the US 4th of July holiday. To me that means no demand. Reduced consumer consumption without a tax increase means government tax revenue at all levels is taking a big hit.

[wphelan]

I paid $2.33 when I filled up my car two days ago.

[Lily]

Cheapest price in my area is $2.30. By the way, this is a neat site for finding the best prices in your zip code. I've found it accurate the great majority of the time.

http://autos.msn.com/everyday/gasstationsbeta.aspx

[Michael]

This thread almost slipped off the page! :eek:

Seems that the price of gasoline has edged up over the $1.00 per L mark here (that's about $3.60 USD per US gallon). The price has been under $1.00 for the last three or four months.

[Greendruid]

This thread almost slipped off the page! :eek:

Seems that the price of gasoline has edged up over the $1.00 per L mark here (that's about $3.60 USD per US gallon). The price has been under $1.00 for the last three or four months.

$1.08.1 as of last Friday - I have to keep up on this one. I'm almost more interested in the disparity between our provinces than the global wackiness that goes on.

[Americano]

$1.08.1 as of last Friday - I have to keep up on this one. I'm almost more interested in the disparity between our provinces than the global wackiness that goes on.

Oil hasn't moved up, so I'd think the slight increases in retail price are due to reduced consumer demand resulting in all refineries increasing distributor costs to meet revenue requirements.

[Michael]

Gas just jumped to $1.03/L this morning.

That's about $3.70 US/USgal.

[The Drunk Guy]

Gas just jumped to $1.03/L this morning.

That's about $3.70 US/USgal.
That sucks. It's $2.59 here. Hovered there throughout the holidays.

[Michael]

That sucks. It's $2.59 here. Hovered there throughout the holidays.
I don't think it sucks. I actually consider gasoline to be rather comparatively 'cheap' product. I think it ought to cost even more to discourage waste of such a precious and dwindling commodity. :)

US has the lowest fuel taxes in the western world. European prices at the pump are usually double the Canadian price. The difference is entirely in excise/sales taxes.

Btw, US usually has some of the lowest tax-rates for just about everything. US also has the lowest/worst provision of government services in return for those low tax-rates, so it all balances out. You get what you pay for in this world. US citizens pay less and get less from the government. Canadians and Europeans choose to pay more to get more. :shrug:

[Americano]

I don't think it sucks. I actually consider gasoline to be rather comparatively 'cheap' product. I think it ought to cost even more to discourage waste of such a precious and dwindling commodity. :)

US has the lowest fuel taxes in the western world. European prices at the pump are usually double the Canadian price. The difference is entirely in excise/sales taxes.

Btw, US usually has some of the lowest tax-rates for just about everything. US also has the lowest/worst provision of government services in return for those low tax-rates, so it all balances out. You get what you pay for in this world. US citizens pay less and get less from the government. Canadians and Europeans choose to pay more to get more. :shrug:

The US had tax rates and trade tariffs to fund virtually any government service including UHC. Then came inflation of targeted assets, the Reagan Administration and you know the rest.

$2.69/gal here.

[wphelan]

Paid $2.65 a couple days ago to fill up a few days ago.

[justonemorevoice]

tonight it was 2.55.

[Lily]

I filled up yesterday, $2.61 at my local station. It's usually one of the cheapest in the area.

[MsCamellia1986]

It's an interesting approach. I commonly see unexceptional views on the subject but yours it's written in a pretty unusual fashion. Surely, I will revisit your website for additional info.:rofl:

[Multiplum]

I filled up yesterday, $2.61 at my local station. It's usually one of the cheapest in the area.
Per gallon? Jumping right into this thread (assuming five pages of gas prices is a bit bland) - to say that our prices range from 7-8 dollars, regularly (if my calculations are correct). I suppose it does go below 7 dollars a gallon every now and then.

I make a little more than minimum wage, at about 24-25 USD an hour, so I guess it evens out for the little guy. But still, damn that's cheap.

[Michael]

Per gallon? Jumping right into this thread (assuming five pages of gas prices is a bit bland) - to say that our prices range from 7-8 dollars, regularly (if my calculations are correct). I suppose it does go below 7 dollars a gallon every now and then.
Yes, European gas prices are always a shock! :lol:

I make a little more than minimum wage, at about 24-25 USD an hour, so I guess it evens out for the little guy. But still, damn that's cheap.
That's about triple the US minimum wage. Two-and-a-half times the Canadian minimum wage.

Indeed, that wage is exactly equal to the average family income in USA (about $46,000 per year) and way higher than the average wage (about $28,000 per year).

[Multiplum]

Yes, European gas prices are always a shock! :lol:


That's about triple the US minimum wage. Two-and-a-half times the Canadian minimum wage.

Indeed, that wage is exactly equal to the average family income in USA (about $46,000 per year) and way higher than the average wage (about $28,000 per year).

But, gasp, we pay MORE TAXES.

I laugh all the way from the doctor's office, of course, so I have to say it evens out again. I'm sure it's awesome to be rich in the US, though.

Edit: Right now I pay 0 % tax, up to about 7000 dollars. Lovely paychecks, and I work 12 hours a week. Oops, at 23,66 dollars, guess rates have changed since last time I checked. Everything is ridiculously priced here, but it's great to travel abroad.

[Americano]

But, gasp, we pay MORE TAXES.

I laugh all the way from the doctor's office, of course, so I have to say it evens out again. I'm sure it's awesome to be rich in the US, though.

You haven't been following any republican or libertarian dominated political forums. Anyone in the US can become rich, all they need to do is get a job and apply themselves. If they don't become rich, they deserve to be contained in abject poverty for being lazy. We are having some serious problems with the job aspect of that formula.

Edit: Right now I pay 0 % tax, up to about 7000 dollars. Lovely paychecks, and I work 12 hours a week. Oops, at 23,66 dollars, guess rates have changed since last time I checked. Everything is ridiculously priced here, but it's great to travel abroad.

[Multiplum]

You haven't been following any republican or libertarian dominated political forums. Anyone in the US can become rich, all they need to do is get a job and apply themselves. If they don't become rich, they deserve to be contained in abject poverty for being lazy. We are having some serious problems with the job aspect of that formula.

I'm not so sure about the American dream, really. I'm not qualified to talk about this, but from what I gather looking in from the outside, there's not that much room for class mobility. It would be interesting to see a comparison between different countries on this, although I doubt it would be possible to find unbiased, reliable sources.

[Americano]

I'm not so sure about the American dream, really. I'm not qualified to talk about this, but from what I gather looking in from the outside, there's not that much room for class mobility. It would be interesting to see a comparison between different countries on this, although I doubt it would be possible to find unbiased, reliable sources.

There is generally zero room for upward class mobility, but The American Dream did generate consumer spending at an instant gratification level, the chaotic aftermath of that now becoming all too familiar.

[Michael]

I'm not so sure about the American dream, really. I'm not qualified to talk about this, but from what I gather looking in from the outside, there's not that much room for class mobility. It would be interesting to see a comparison between different countries on this, although I doubt it would be possible to find unbiased, reliable sources.

Every study I've seen done in the last twenty years (advanced western nations only) always puts the US at the bottom of any comparative study for social mobility. In the USA, your parent's social class determines your future social status to a degree unparalleled elsewhere.

You might be surprised to find that France and Denmark usually top the list.

Even UK beats the USA by a longshot and that's pathetic (since the UK has a horrific track record with social mobility).

In other words, if you are born to a poor working class background, but are a brilliant entrepreneur, statistically speaking, the USA is the worst country in the western world to be born in.

[Multiplum]

Every study I've seen done in the last twenty years (advanced western nations only) always puts the US at the bottom of any comparative study for social mobility. In the USA, your parent's social class determines your future social status to a degree unparalleled elsewhere.

You might be surprised to find that France and Denmark usually top the list.

Even UK beats the USA by a longshot and that's pathetic (since the UK has a horrific track record with social mobility).

In other words, if you are born to a poor working class background, but are a brilliant entrepreneur, statistically speaking, the USA is the worst country in the western world to be born in.

France? Denmark I can understand, should be way better than here, where you're usually stuck with being "well off" regardless of talent or effort. And I didn't think the UK would beat the US, that's counter-intuitive considering how backwards the UK is in some respects.

[aaron.adley]

People all over the world stopped driving and started using collective transportation causing the prices to go down, but i do believe that the government is involved in this because i have never seen the price of something to decrease that fast.
I heard that the higher prices go, the more they fall. Picture this, companies are in business to make money, and the cheaper they can make stuff, the better for them because their profits are greater. I still think automakers make cars cheaply and they break easily, rather than making something to last. This makes me lose faith in mankind, somewhat. Demand has dropped, I'm sure.

[Americano]

People all over the world stopped driving and started using collective transportation causing the prices to go down, but i do believe that the government is involved in this because i have never seen the price of something to decrease that fast.
I heard that the higher prices go, the more they fall. Picture this, companies are in business to make money, and the cheaper they can make stuff, the better for them because their profits are greater. I still think automakers make cars cheaply and they break easily, rather than making something to last. This makes me lose faith in mankind, somewhat. Demand has dropped, I'm sure.

So Aaron, what are you paying for fuel?

[Michael]

$3.67 per US gallon right now in Toronto.

(dollar parity sure makes this calculation a lot easier!)

[Greendruid]

$4.00/US Gallon as of today in Cape Breton

[Donkey]

$2.68 at the gas station I usually tank up at. It's generally 3-10 cents lower than the area average though.

[Americano]

$3/gal here. We get California refinery products.

[Michael]

Given dollar parity, it looks like about a $0.75 per gallon difference in gasoline taxes.

Based on US gasoline consumption (378 million gallons per day), that translates into about $100 billion per year.

That could easily pay for a full Canadian style universal healthcare system in the USA - and would have the added benefit of encouraging a reduction in greenhouse gases.

And Canadian fuel prices are dirt cheap compared to Europe. Indeed, Canadian gasoline prices are so low they seem to encourage wasteful usage (much like in the USA).

[Lily]

We've come down some in my area of Florida in the past week, from $2.85 to $2.73.

[Margot]

We've come down some in my area of Florida in the past week, from $2.85 to $2.73.

We skyrocketed down here. Went from about $2.80 to $3.00.