Age of Responsibility

[Michael]

What is the Age of Responsibility?

From sex to driving to juvenile justice to drinking, state and local laws send young people mixed messages about their own maturity. Is there a better way?

Justin McNaull grew up in a hurry. By the time he was 23, McNaull had graduated from college, married and gone to work for his local police force in Virginia. But McNaull, now 36, still bristles at the memory of something he wasn’t allowed to do at 23: go down to the airport counter and rent a car. “I’d been involved in police pursuits at more than 100 mph,” he says, “and yet they still wouldn’t rent me a car.”

To many young people, rental-car restrictions are more than an annoyance. They’re also a confusing contradiction, in terms of what society expects of them. After all, states trust people to drive at a much younger age: Most states issue driver’s licenses to persons as young as 16 years old. Yet nearly a decade must pass before the same persons can earn the trust of Hertz or Avis.

By the time adolescents become adults, they are accustomed to such inconsistent treatment. Practically from puberty, young people are bombarded with mixed signals about the scope of their rights and the depth of their responsibilities. And most of those mixed signals come from the laws of state and local governments. In most respects, people are considered adults at 18. That’s when they can vote and enter into legal contracts—including the purchase, if not rental, of a car. But a 20-year-old Marine, just back from patrolling the streets of Baghdad, would have to turn 21 before he could join a local police force in most cities in the United States. A 20-year-old college junior, far more educated than the average American, cannot buy alcohol or enter a casino. In 10 states, a single 20-year-old cannot legally have sex with a 17-year old. But in nearly every state, a 16-year-old can marry—if he has his parents’ permission. (A handful of states allow girls to marry before boys.)
Article (http://www.governing.com/article/what-age-responsibility)

I know we have a few members here that are over 18 but under 25, so I'll expect some of them to have particularly poignant opinions on this topic. Either way, I think it is a topic that is interesting and important. I do believe that society (in general) does a bloody poor job of determining the age of responsibility - putting up high age barriers for some things (drinking or car rentals) and very low age barriers for other things (car driving for example).

So what do you think? Are age of responsiblity laws good or could they be better?

[Donkey]

The inherent problem, of course, is that people mature at different rates, so any law will always have people who are mature beforehand, and it will apply to people who are not sufficiently responsible for those societal privileges. Of course the trick is to get the best average.

Some laws are ridiculous, the drinking age should be lowered, for instance. A question I have, though, is about car rentals. Is that law or company policy? Like insurance?

[The Drunk Guy]

The inherent problem, of course, is that people mature at different rates, so any law will always have people who are mature beforehand, and it will apply to people who are not sufficiently responsible for those societal privileges. Of course the trick is to get the best average.I agree. Some 18-year-olds are ready to work and raise a family, while others still shouldn't be allowed to drive (or even be outside after 7pm).

I do think that all age requirements should be the same age, though. Eighteen is the age at which you graduate high school (typically), so that sounds like a nice number. It could be overwhelming to have all those rights slapped on at once, so maybe a two-year permit period for driver's licenses. :shrug:

Some laws are ridiculous, the drinking age should be lowered, for instance. A question I have, though, is about car rentals. Is that law or company policy? Like insurance?It is company policy, but it is a universal policy that all rental places adhere to. There are other types of rentals that share the same policy, too.

[drgoodtrips]

Article (http://www.governing.com/article/what-age-responsibility)

I know we have a few members here that are over 18 but under 25, so I'll expect some of them to have particularly poignant opinions on this topic. Either way, I think it is a topic that is interesting and important. I do believe that society (in general) does a bloody poor job of determining the age of responsibility - putting up high age barriers for some things (drinking or car rentals) and very low age barriers for other things (car driving for example).

So what do you think? Are age of responsiblity laws good or could they be better?

I started taking business trips at age 24, so there was a brief window where I had to sidestep this annoyance. There are some rental agencies that will rent to people under 25, but from what I recall it's significantly more expensive.

In terms of car rentals, it seems to me that it ought to be up to the companies to whom they decide to rent. Although, this does open up a slippery slope for discrimination. I wonder if there is senior any age beyond which car rental agencies do not rent cars to people.

[The Drunk Girl]

It could be overwhelming to have all those rights slapped on at once, so maybe a two-year permit period for driver's licenses. :shrug:


Give everyone my parents and problem solved. ;)

Is the age in Tennessee still 15 for getting a driver's permit?

Although, this does open up a slippery slope for discrimination. I wonder if there is senior any age beyond which car rental agencies do not rent cars to people.

That is a good point. I'll take it even further, because I feel that some senior citizens shouldn't be on the road. I wouldn't see it as being a bad idea for senior citizens to have to take another driving test to prove that they are still able to drive. It seems like it would be a tad easier on the person, the family, and society for them to have driving "check-ups" done every so often.

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The only "problem" I have with 18 being the age limit for buying alcohol, is simply the fact that there are still plenty of kids who are still in high school at this age. Maybe if this was the legal age, kids could only buy on Fridays or Saturdays during the school year?....or maybe place a sticker on their driver's license (like for organ donors) that would indicate they were out of high school to buy whenever? :shrug:

I ran into a problem a few years back, when my parents decided to still claim me on their taxes. When they did this and because I was under the age of 23, I got screwed when it came to financial aid. I was working, going to school, paying bills, and hardly received any money to help me out. I'm thinking they did this last year, too because the difference in what I got last year is quite a bit less than this year.

[drgoodtrips]

You could report your parents for tax fraud and have your 'dependent' status revoked.

[The Drunk Girl]

You could report your parents for tax fraud and have your 'dependent' status revoked.

That would have gone over like a lead balloon. Luckily, I don't have to worry about that anymore. That might have been the only thing I was "happy" for when I turned 24. :lol:

[Americano]

Give everyone my parents and problem solved. ;)

Is the age in Tennessee still 15 for getting a driver's permit?



That is a good point. I'll take it even further, because I feel that some senior citizens shouldn't be on the road. I wouldn't see it as being a bad idea for senior citizens to have to take another driving test to prove that they are still able to drive. It seems like it would be a tad easier on the person, the family, and society for them to have driving "check-ups" done every so often.

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The only "problem" I have with 18 being the age limit for buying alcohol, is simply the fact that there are still plenty of kids who are still in high school at this age. Maybe if this was the legal age, kids could only buy on Fridays or Saturdays during the school year?....or maybe place a sticker on their driver's license (like for organ donors) that would indicate they were out of high school to buy whenever? :shrug:

High school kids have no problems in securing alcohol or drugs regardless of age.

I ran into a problem a few years back, when my parents decided to still claim me on their taxes. When they did this and because I was under the age of 23, I got screwed when it came to financial aid. I was working, going to school, paying bills, and hardly received any money to help me out. I'm thinking they did this last year, too because the difference in what I got last year is quite a bit less than this year.

[Americano]

The inherent problem, of course, is that people mature at different rates, so any law will always have people who are mature beforehand, and it will apply to people who are not sufficiently responsible for those societal privileges. Of course the trick is to get the best average.

Some laws are ridiculous, the drinking age should be lowered, for instance. A question I have, though, is about car rentals. Is that law or company policy? Like insurance?

The rental car age restriction of age 25 or over, while a company policy, has always been based on insurance actuary reports of males under 25 being responsible for a disproportionate number of automobile accidents. Virtually all rental companies are self-insured for collision damage.

That fact is reflected in individual auto insurance policy rates for males under 25 being the highest in the US.

[Donkey]

You don't say... :p

[Greendruid]

The rental car age restriction of age 25 or over, while a company policy, has always been based on insurance actuary reports of males under 25 being responsible for a disproportionate number of automobile accidents. Virtually all rental companies are self-insured for collision damage.

That fact is reflected in individual auto insurance policy rates for males under 25 being the highest in the US.

It's also the reason some companies won't rent a car to anyone planning on driving said car in Boston or NYC.

[The Drunk Girl]

High school kids have no problems in securing alcohol or drugs regardless of age.

Well, I know this..

I was just thinking of when I was in high school many students waited until the weekends to drink, "The Weekend Alcoholics" is what we referred to them as. Not many drank during the week (due to lack of accessibility), but that might change if the legal age were to be dropped to 18. I was just trying to cover bases, and there should be, in my opinion, some sort of regulations set if the legal drinking age was 18 and one was still in school.

[Americano]

It's also the reason some companies won't rent a car to anyone planning on driving said car in Boston or NYC.

As zip code is a primary rate determination factor in collision and theft coverage, that makes sense.

[Michael]

It's also the reason some companies won't rent a car to anyone planning on driving said car in Boston or NYC.
Anyone planning on driving a car in NYC needs their head read! :lol:

Civilized people just don't do that kind of thing.

[The Drunk Guy]

Anyone planning on driving a car in NYC needs their head read! :lol:

Civilized people just don't do that kind of thing.
Plus, it just ain't New York without a weird experience on the trains.

[Margot]

The inherent problem, of course, is that people mature at different rates, so any law will always have people who are mature beforehand, and it will apply to people who are not sufficiently responsible for those societal privileges. Of course the trick is to get the best average.


I don't think it is just that, though. I mean, there are some standards that hold true: I, the girl, far more mature than you, after all :p.

But seriously, I think that our American society is lacking a fundamental, solid point of no return. Most of my friends are Jewish, and all of them have been Mitzvah'd. Someone went to them, and said, "you are no longer a child."

That sounds a little heinous, but at the same time, there is definite value in it. Here, you can't be immature any more. And for the most part, it works. I'm not saying that they don't drink or smoke or make stupid decisions, but at the same time each and every one of these friends knows that his or her actions are the actions of an adult. We've got to make people feel mature before we can do anything else.

I think that the best way to handle the situation is culturally, and then allow the legality fall into place. As it stands, I don't think anyone should have any rights until they're at least thirty (or me).

[Americano]

Plus, it just ain't New York without a weird experience on the trains.

Uh oh, somebody broke the rule of making eye contact with a stranger on the train.

[The Drunk Guy]

Uh oh, somebody broke the rule of making eye contact with a stranger on the train.
No, that actually got more smiles than not. It was the domestic dispute at the front of the car that was the show. And another at the platform. :shrug:

[Americano]

No, that actually got more smiles than not. It was the domestic dispute at the front of the car that was the show. And another at the platform. :shrug:

No eye contact on a train or sidewalk was the first city survival rule passed on to me during my NYC residence. That was long ago and I'm sure contemporary New Yorkers are warm, friendly and helpful to strangers.

[Michael]

No eye contact on a train or sidewalk was the first city survival rule passed on to me during my NYC residence. That was long ago and I'm sure contemporary New Yorkers are warm, friendly and helpful to strangers.
I wouldn't say that's required any more, though it is still good prudent advice.

Pretty much applies to all big cities. Eye-contact invites attention and the big city is filled with more than its fair share of sob-stories, con-artists, crazies and criminals.

[The Drunk Guy]

I wouldn't say that's required any more, though it is still good prudent advice.

Pretty much applies to all big cities. Eye-contact invites attention and the big city is filled with more than its fair share of sob-stories, con-artists, crazies and criminals.
Well, believe it or not, living in the country teaches you about non-verbal communication with strangers. And recognizing faces of creeps and criminals is a specialty of mine. I can tell a man's character by the time we're done saying hello.

As far as sob-stories and cons, I don't have anything to give. Ever. Ask all you want, I don't fucking have it.

[Michael]

Well, believe it or not, living in the country teaches you about non-verbal communication with strangers. And recognizing faces of creeps and criminals is a specialty of mine. I can tell a man's character by the time we're done saying hello.
Yeah, but that's not good enough just to identify a crazy. You really need to avoid them before they open their mouth! They might just decide to follow you down the street - shreiking as they go!

As far as sob-stories and cons, I don't have anything to give. Ever. Ask all you want, I don't fucking have it.
Sure, but you are perhaps missing the 'scale' issue here - the difference between a tourist and a resident. Getting asked to bum a smoke or spare some change, 20 times a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year does get tiresome. Eye-contact certainly will invite these requests in a flash.

[Americano]

Yeah, but that's not good enough just to identify a crazy. You really need to avoid them before they open their mouth! They might just decide to follow you down the street - shreiking as they go!


Sure, but you are perhaps missing the 'scale' issue here - the difference between a tourist and a resident. Getting asked to bum a smoke or spare some change, 20 times a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year does get tiresome. Eye-contact certainly will invite these requests in a flash.

Living in any major city where walking in crowds on sidewalks is common the no eye-contact survival rule quickly evolves into using one's peripheral vision to spot the bums, crazies and criminals to ensure direct vision (eye-contact) is avoided.

Pickpockets usually work in pairs, the distraction (eye-contact) and the picker who bumps into the victim while the victims brain is processing the eye-contact. And yes, eye-contact with a crazy who begins screaming at the top of his/her lungs about one's heritage, salvation or such while following one down the sidewalk is not a fun experience.

[The Drunk Girl]

Yeah, but that's not good enough just to identify a crazy. You really need to avoid them before they open their mouth! They might just decide to follow you down the street - shreiking as they go!


Sure, but you are perhaps missing the 'scale' issue here - the difference between a tourist and a resident. Getting asked to bum a smoke or spare some change, 20 times a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year does get tiresome. Eye-contact certainly will invite these requests in a flash.

The problem with living in the country is everyone knows EVERYONE. So if you go out of your way to do something "nice" for someone else then that person goes and tells all of their bum friends that you did something "nice" for them. This in turn leads to the original person, plus their friends bumming rides...bumming cigarettes...bumming beer..whatever have you. I learned this the hard way once I moved to a smaller, country community. I hate saying, "no" to someone, but I learned pretty fast that sometimes I just had to say, "no" ( well it is more like an awkward, "umm...I don't know *shuffling feet on the ground* I...umm....umm...have something to do...ummm...yeah") But, it's still no! :lol: