Food, Inc.

[evanescence]

I recently watched this documentary called Food, Inc on what goes on behind the scenes at the slaughter houses, and at the factories where our food is being processed, and I was absolutely appalled.It's a long film, over an hour. It has shocking images of animals abuse that even sickened me which is saying something, but it is very well documented, imo. I hope that people will take the time to watch it and think about it. It is definitely worth while.


http://www.hulu.com/watch/67878/the-future-of-food (http://www.hulu.com/watch/67878/the-future-of-food)

For those with Netflix:

http://www.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70108783&trkid=813235 (http://www.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70108783&trkid=813235)


I think a key change in policy is required, but because of corruption, this would be a long process full of bureaucratic red tape. As consumers, our choices are already limited, particularly for those with a lower incomes. Informing people is the key, imo.

[Michael]

Serendipity! That particular documentary is next up on my to watch list!

(I have a friend that brings me dozens of documentaries on DVD's every couple of weeks - I have lterally hundreds of them!)

I've already seen several industrial-agriculture documentaries previously. There is a reason that I only buy high-end organic meats that are certified 'free-range' and 'hormone-free'. Luckily, I have the income where this is easy for me to afford - moving down the economic food chain, the products get uglier as they get cheaper!

[evanescence]

Serendipity! That particular documentary is next up on my to watch list!

(I have a friend that brings me dozens of documentaries on DVD's every couple of weeks - I have lterally hundreds of them!)

I've already seen several industrial-agriculture documentaries previously. There is a reason that I only buy high-end organic meats that are certified 'free-range' and 'hormone-free'. Luckily, I have the income where this is easy for me to afford - moving down the economic food chain, the products get uglier as they get cheaper!

It's worth watching. And you're VERY lucky to be able to afford those products. Watch this documentary and you'll see exactly what I mean. I can't really afford extra for food, but if organic, free range is avaible to me, I will shell out extra.

[Americano]

No need for me to watch it. I remember the experience of taking a tour of the Oscar Meyer plant in Los Angeles, CA. Their primary product was hot dogs and what went into the rendering pots was beyond description. Didn't even resemble the pink hot dogs one buys in markets.

I also toured a beef slaughter house in Nebraska, which was truly depressing.

I don't need to relive those experiences. I've field dressed and butchered most US game animals, from antelope to elk, including making sausage from scratch with less desirable cuts using the intestines, but a commercial slaughter house is an entirely different world.

I still eat all types of meat without qualms.

Here's a site on work conditions in the meatpacking industry, dated 2001 but informative:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/irrad/slaughterworkers.cfm

[Michael]

I just watched this documentary. :eek:

It is a very interesting, informative and well made documentary. I personally was mostly familiar with all the issues addressed, but that's only because I've been reading about this industry for quite a few years now and have already watched several documentaries about the agriculture factory system.

Heck if you are into this topic, I'll recommend the Monsanto documentary - that's a real eye opener!!! :eek:

As for Food Inc., one of the key points that stood out for me was the whole socio-economic class basis of the food industry. The way that really poor people seem to be necessary to the whole system really stands out for me. Without dirt-poor illegal immigrants, there would be no labor to service the factories (since the work is really fucking disgusting) and without working poor people, there would be no one to keep the fast food industry going and without the fast food industry, the whole edifice of industrial agriculture would fail.

Fact is, you can measure the extent of your exposure to high-risk toxic agricultural products directly by your socio-economic status. If you are in the bottom third (or non-white, same difference actually), your chances of developing Type II Diabetes (adult-onset) is 50%. You also run a substantially high risk of E. Coli or Sammonella poisoning (which can kill or be major dehabilitating diseases). :eek:

If you are in the top third, then your risk from industrial agriculture is substantially reduced by comparison. Upscale consumers usually don't buy the cheapest available packaged processed meat products (sandwich meats like bologna for example) or eat at Taco Bell quite as often as the bottom third of the economic scale.

And when soda pop is the cheapest drink one can buy at the supermarket, you can be sure that it is being purchased in large quantities by the poorest consumers who lack purchasing power for alternatives.

That being said, the industrial character of modern agriculture, fast food restaurants and the whole product line at the supermarket, no one is immune to the increasing risk and danger of contamination in the food chain.

The other interesting 'fact' from the documentary I found was the incredible level of corporate concentration going on in the food business and the supermarket shelves. Finding that just four US companies supply 80% of all meat products in the US is a really scary statistic. Those are four of the biggest monster companies with the worst industrial labor, safety and environment practices out there - that pay the absolute lowest wages and produce product at the lowest possible price - to meet Walmart or McDonalds contract specifications (naturally).

And that is increasingly becoming a trend I've noticed in all the documentaries I keep seeing - how McDonalds or Walmart are always one of the main drivers of all these horrific new processes that seem to be killing everything in their path (and making record shareholder profits in the process). The success of either of two innovators is quickly copied so that some 80% of the US market ends up marching to the business plans established by these two companies - and the people of America (and the rest of the planet) are left to suffer the consequences - whatever they may be.

[Michael]

I forgot to mention the second interesting fact from the documentary was about how most of the 'worst' factory-foods produced on the market, are the ones that are the most heavily subsidized with tax money (and thus the most profitable!).

I suppose I was already familiar with that, but it is just such an important characteristic of the whole food industry in the USA so it bears repeating. Washington is where it is at. They are the ones creating all the laws and facilitating this whole industrial-agriculture monstrosity with your tax dollars. Without the tax-subsidies, this game is impossible to play.

Say what you want about equally high levels of European agricultural subsidies, but the fact is, European agricultural subsidies do get paid out to many thousands of small farmers across Europe. In the USA, over 85% of all agricultural subsidies are paid to the ten largest agro-food corporations.

Oddly enough, all of those ten largest agro-food corporations have shares listed on the NY Stock Exchange! :lol:

[Americano]

Four meat packing companies controlling 80% of the market is identical to information in the link I posted from 2001, so not much change there.

The diabetes factor linked to socioeconomic status is interesting, but I don't find it surprising. Meat and poultry raised without artificial supplements in my area is normally twice the cost of chain grocery meat department products.

My closest town had one butcher shop, a good sized one, and they finally had to build a new, much larger location that incorporated grocery goods to stay in business. They simply couldn't compete with grocery chains by offering only meat and poultry products.

I also discovered that shop often supplements their beef and poultry lines using........the same distribtors who service chain grocery store meat departments. Too many undesirable/unsaleable cuts from in-house butchering forced that to maintain margin on popular products without retail prices soaring out of sight.

[evanescence]

I just watched this documentary. :eek:

It is a very interesting, informative and well made documentary. I personally was mostly familiar with all the issues addressed, but that's only because I've been reading about this industry for quite a few years now and have already watched several documentaries about the agriculture factory system.

Heck if you are into this topic, I'll recommend the Monsanto documentary - that's a real eye opener!!! :eek:

I'll check that out. I have become very interested in this subject. My husband and I are actively trying to improve our diets and it is very difficult. Education is an important start, at least.

As for Food Inc., one of the key points that stood out for me was the whole socio-economic class basis of the food industry. The way that really poor people seem to be necessary to the whole system really stands out for me. Without dirt-poor illegal immigrants, there would be no labor to service the factories (since the work is really fucking disgusting) and without working poor people, there would be no one to keep the fast food industry going and without the fast food industry, the whole edifice of industrial agriculture would fail.

Fact is, you can measure the extent of your exposure to high-risk toxic agricultural products directly by your socio-economic status. If you are in the bottom third (or non-white, same difference actually), your chances of developing Type II Diabetes (adult-onset) is 50%. You also run a substantially high risk of E. Coli or Sammonella poisoning (which can kill or be major dehabilitating diseases). :eek:

This is not surprising. No wonder the top rungs of society seem so blissfully unconcerned about the shrinking middle class.

If you are in the top third, then your risk from industrial agriculture is substantially reduced by comparison. Upscale consumers usually don't buy the cheapest available packaged processed meat products (sandwich meats like bologna for example) or eat at Taco Bell quite as often as the bottom third of the economic scale.

And when soda pop is the cheapest drink one can buy at the supermarket, you can be sure that it is being purchased in large quantities by the poorest consumers who lack purchasing power for alternatives.

That being said, the industrial character of modern agriculture, fast food restaurants and the whole product line at the supermarket, no one is immune to the increasing risk and danger of contamination in the food chain.

The other interesting 'fact' from the documentary I found was the incredible level of corporate concentration going on in the food business and the supermarket shelves. Finding that just four US companies supply 80% of all meat products in the US is a really scary statistic. Those are four of the biggest monster companies with the worst industrial labor, safety and environment practices out there - that pay the absolute lowest wages and produce product at the lowest possible price - to meet Walmart or McDonalds contract specifications (naturally).

And that is increasingly becoming a trend I've noticed in all the documentaries I keep seeing - how McDonalds or Walmart are always one of the main drivers of all these horrific new processes that seem to be killing everything in their path (and making record shareholder profits in the process). The success of either of two innovators is quickly copied so that some 80% of the US market ends up marching to the business plans established by these two companies - and the people of America (and the rest of the planet) are left to suffer the consequences - whatever they may be.

Disgusting isn't it? :mad:

We're thinking of buying a cow from a farmer and having it butchered so we can have fresh meat. We'd have to go in on it with another prole so we can afford it, but free range is worth the price.

[Americano]

I'll check that out. I have become very interested in this subject. My husband and I are actively trying to improve our diets and it is very difficult. Education is an important start, at least.



This is not surprising. No wonder the top rungs of society seem so blissfully unconcerned about the shrinking middle class.



Disgusting isn't it? :mad:

We're thinking of buying a cow from a farmer and having it butchered so we can have fresh meat. We'd have to go in on it with another prole so we can afford it, but free range is worth the price.

You might want to bring that up in another thread. I grew up with that process and did it myself until until I got lazy. I believe Greendruid and perhaps others are familiar with butchering, wrapping and storing meat/poultry. Did the person you're buying beef cattle from raise them on foods that were never subjected to pesticides and other issues with buying a side, half or whole beef.

[evanescence]

You might want to bring that up in another thread. I grew up with that process and did it myself until until I got lazy. I believe Greendruid and perhaps others are familiar with butchering, wrapping and storing meat/poultry. Did the person you're buying beef cattle from raise them on foods that were never subjected to pesticides and other issues with buying a side, half or whole beef.

I'm not too sure about the details. We're still looking into it, but I think it's free range. It's also very expensive. The farmer and butcher both want their share.

[Michael]

I'm not too sure about the details. We're still looking into it, but I think it's free range. It's also very expensive. The farmer and butcher both want their share.

I only buy organic/free-range beef and pork products at my local butchershop - ever since I first learned some of the 'facts' about industrial agriculture.

These products are roughly double the price of regular meat products, but the quality of the product is superior in every way - and non-toxic. If you can afford it, it is the way to go.

[Americano]

I'm not too sure about the details. We're still looking into it, but I think it's free range. It's also very expensive. The farmer and butcher both want their share.

With cattle free range means only that they're not confined in a feed lot before harvesting. How the range they graze on is maintained (pesticides) and how their supplementary feed (alfalfa/hay) is grown are the key issues. If those factors meet your approval (they will lie to you) you're going to pay a lot more for packaged natural meat due to the low demand/volume. Buying half a beef is going to include some cuts you might not favor (more burger than you might imagine). Then you have the storage issue. The last grass fed quarter beef I bought averaged out to around $3.75/lb, without storage cost, but that was several years ago.

[evanescence]

With cattle free range means only that they're not confined in a feed lot before harvesting. How the range they graze on is maintained (pesticides) and how their supplementary feed (alfalfa/hay) is grown are the key issues.

I'll have to find that out. I wrongly assumed that free range meant that they were..well..free range. :shrug: This may be more complicated than I imagined.

If those factors meet your approval (they will lie to you) you're going to pay a lot more for packaged natural meat due to the low demand/volume. Buying half a beef is going to include some cuts you might not favor (more burger than you might imagine). Then you have the storage issue. The last grass fed quarter beef I bought averaged out to around $3.75/lb, without storage cost, but that was several years ago.

We do have a deep freezer..it would be jammed full but I think it would work. The price was slightly less than $2.50 which is the average cost at most grocery stores around here. But that makes me think that the cow might be lower quality.

[Americano]

I'll have to find that out. I wrongly assumed that free range meant that they were..well..free range. :shrug: This may be more complicated than I imagined.

I've found the net can bring you up to speed on almost any consumer product or project. Food's a huge topic, especially the differences between organic and poison laden products. When growing weed I used organic gardening websites as much as I did any other resource.

We do have a deep freezer..it would be jammed full but I think it would work. The price was slightly less than $2.50 which is the average cost at most grocery stores around here. But that makes me think that the cow might be lower quality.

Have they given you the age and sex of the meat? Those are important considerations when making a decision on buying bulk beef. A farmer might have an old milk cow that dried up and some city folks don't know the difference until they lose a tooth or end making a lot of 48-hour marinated steaks. Yes, I've made mistakes in buying meat.

[evanescence]

I've found the net can bring you up to speed on almost any consumer product or project. Food's a huge topic, especially the differences between organic and poison laden products. When growing weed I used organic gardening websites as much as I did any other resource.



Have they given you the age and sex of the meat? Those are important considerations when making a decision on buying bulk beef. A farmer might have an old milk cow that dried up and some city folks don't know the difference until they lose a tooth or end making a lot of 48-hour marinated steaks. Yes, I've made mistakes in buying meat.

Truthfully, I am so new to this subject, i don't even know the questions to ask. Your responses have been very helpful. I think I should write these questions down and ask around.

[Americano]

According to these people they're the only certified organic grass-fed beef supplier in Tennessee:

http://www.grassorganic.com/t-about.aspx

Their butchered and wrapped half-beef (average 185lbs) is $6.50/lb. Stock bones (my wife loves marrow) are an additional $3/lb.

[Americano]

Here's an interesting bit of trivia for your questions:

http://www.applegatefarms.com/images/home/healthyanimalsdontneedantibiotics.gif Every day antibiotics are fed to animals on Industrial farms to speed up growth and compensate for unsanitary living conditions. In fact, up to 70 percent of all antibiotics produced in the U.S. are given to animals being raised for food. This practice promotes the creation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria on industrial farms, which eventually make their way to humans. Antibiotic-resistant strains of MRSA, Staph, E-Coli and Salmonella are having a serious impact on public health and can be traced to industrial farming practices.

http://www.applegatefarms.com/

[Michael]

Here's an interesting bit of trivia for your questions:

http://www.applegatefarms.com/images/home/healthyanimalsdontneedantibiotics.gif Every day antibiotics are fed to animals on Industrial farms to speed up growth and compensate for unsanitary living conditions. In fact, up to 70 percent of all antibiotics produced in the U.S. are given to animals being raised for food. This practice promotes the creation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria on industrial farms, which eventually make their way to humans. Antibiotic-resistant strains of MRSA, Staph, E-Coli and Salmonella are having a serious impact on public health and can be traced to industrial farming practices.

http://www.applegatefarms.com/
This is the specific reason that I stopped buying supermarket meat products about four or five years ago and now I ONLY buy organic-certified meat. If I can't get organic-certified meat, I don't buy meat at all.

Btw, organic/freerange pork seems to be pretty big here. Seems to be more readily available than beef.

[Greendruid]

This is the specific reason that I stopped buying supermarket meat products about four or five years ago and now I ONLY buy organic-certified meat. If I can't get organic-certified meat, I don't buy meat at all.

Btw, organic/freerange pork seems to be pretty big here. Seems to be more readily available than beef.

Personally, this is where I started in my move towards the diet I'm at now. My goal is to only eat animals that I slaughter myself. I don't have the skillset required for that at this time given that the meats I eat include pigs, cows, fish and chickens and the occasional lamb. The place I'm at now is to only eat animals that I know have been raised in a way that matches the strictures Americano and Michael have been talking about. I now only eat wild fish that I've caught and processed myself. This decision regarding other animals has, so far, entailed animals from friends' farms. All of these animals have had names and I have personally met the animals. There is of course an ethical issue here. My wife is vegetarian and takes the position that anyone who eats animals but is unable to bear the thought of killing them themselves is a hypocrite. She grew up in a rural family where ALL meat was hunted or farm raised. She became vegetarian because she doesn't feel she is capable of that act. I agree with that statement to some extent but for now, my skillset lacks the slaughtering and processing abilities that I'd like to one day have. As far as the components of the animals' diets, pasture-fed makes all the difference in the world to a cow or lamb. Free-ranged chicken is like nothing you'd ever taste from a factory. Free-ranged eggs for that matter are a world apart from factory/battery eggs - dark yellow to orange yolks and a real taste to them that lets you know you've just eaten an egg, not a bland, tasteless substitute.

[Americano]

The US lags behind other developed countries in supplying certified organic meat and poultry. Organic producers are burdened with costly certification requirements while selling against publicly subsidized industrial producers, effectively eliminating probably 80% of the market to organics due to socioeconomic circumstances. Most Americans will buy the $2 pork chop or grab a, shudder, Big Mac rather than even considering a $5 certified organic pork chop.

And there are a bunch of opportunists out there selling grass fed beef for high prices, neglecting to inform the buying public that their beef gets all the
anti-biotics, hormones and pesticide treated feed common to industrial feedlot beef.

[Greendruid]

The US lags behind other developed countries in supplying certified organic meat and poultry. Organic producers are burdened with costly certification requirements while selling against publicly subsidized industrial producers, effectively eliminating probably 80% of the market to organics due to socioeconomic circumstances. Most Americans will buy the $2 pork chop or grab a, shudder, Big Mac rather than even considering a $5 certified organic pork chop.

And there are a bunch of opportunists out there selling grass fed beef for high prices, neglecting to inform the buying public that their beef gets all the
anti-biotics, hormones and pesticide treated feed common to industrial feedlot beef.

Very interesting point. I failed to mention that none of the organic meat I currently have in my possession was certified. Canada doesn't have a national/federal board that does this. It has several small companies that do this instead. Either way, I know the farmers and this makes all the difference in the world to me. In a way, it is "illegal" meat. Sad that this has to be the case.

Incidentally, on the point of free-ranged eggs, Nova Scotia has passed a law requiring fencing around and above all free-ranged flocks over 50 birds. This was supposedly done for the disease safety of the chickens so that they didn't come into contact with wild birds. Personally, I've never seen a wild bird come close to my chickens. They just don't do that. They don't even share water sources. The real reason is probably to protect factory/battery produced chicken and the huge industry that goes along with that.

[Michael]

Very interesting point. I failed to mention that none of the organic meat I currently have in my possession was certified. Canada doesn't have a national/federal board that does this. It has several small companies that do this instead. Either way, I know the farmers and this makes all the difference in the world to me. In a way, it is "illegal" meat. Sad that this has to be the case.
Do not place any trust in the Canadian Department of Agriculture!!!

The EU has formally accused them of wilfull misrepresentation with respect to the certification of BGH-free, citing their systemic failure to even try to maintain a meaningful certification (Agriculture Canada appears to be willfully mixing BGH-free and BGH-fed meat together in shipments to European markets). Apparently, the Canadian Department of Agriculture is just as chock full of industrial-agriculture corporate toadies as the US Department of Agriculture. These types consider it their mission to contaminate the food supply as completely as possible - and lie about it.

Btw, BGH is Bovine Growth Hormone - and is alleged to be a major cause of precocious puberty in humans (amongst many other side-effects).

Incidentally, on the point of free-ranged eggs, Nova Scotia has passed a law requiring fencing around and above all free-ranged flocks over 50 birds. This was supposedly done for the disease safety of the chickens so that they didn't come into contact with wild birds. Personally, I've never seen a wild bird come close to my chickens. They just don't do that. They don't even share water sources. The real reason is probably to protect factory/battery produced chicken and the huge industry that goes along with that.
That smells like the kind of policy that is designed entirely for the purpose of driving up the costs of competition - a policy bought and paid for by the industrial-agriculture industry.

[Americano]

Another interesting statistic is the number of USDA (US Department of Agriculture) organic certification agents. There are 56 in the US and 44 foreign agents. The US is a ripe market for organic imports.

Personal organic vegetable gardens have really caught on in my area. I get decomposed cow manure for growing my organic weed from an organic certified dairy and in the spring one has to call ahead to ensure availability.

[evanescence]

According to these people they're the only certified organic grass-fed beef supplier in Tennessee:

http://www.grassorganic.com/t-about.aspx

Their butchered and wrapped half-beef (average 185lbs) is $6.50/lb. Stock bones (my wife loves marrow) are an additional $3/lb.

ouch. I don't know that we can afford $6.50 a pound at this point. :(